Vassals going nuts.

[unmerged(31020)]

I'm currently playing as King of Rus and whatnot. DV with latest beta. My vassals declared several wars in the past that made me scatch my head cause I couldn't figure a casus belli... but that were minor brawls, so I didn't bother looking into it carefully.

Now however, one of my little idiots declared war on Germany, and this time I really want to understand what's going on.

The order of events from the log, all on the same day:

1. My vassal Principality of Crimea declares war on Kingdom of Germany.
They have absolutely no claim on Germany or anyone in Germany's realm. I also carefully checked all of their courtiers and offspring - noone has any claims. They have no allies who are at war with Germany (at this moment).

2. County of Lower Don declares war on Kingdom of Germany.
They're honoring their alliance with Crimea, so that's fine.

3. My vassal Principality of Novgorod-Seversk declares war on Kingdom of Germany.
Same as with Crimea: Noone in that court has claims. They have no allies who are at war with Germany (at this moment).

4. County of Uglich declares war on Kingdom of Germany.
They're honoring their alliance with Novgorod-Seversk, so that's fine.

I am not at war with Germany or anyone else at this moment. My vassals are all orthodox, Germany is catholic. I have no claims on anyone in Germany's realm. Germany has no claims on anyone in my realm. (Yes, I carefully checked all of Germany's about 150 claims - twice!)

I'm lost here. For all I know, my vassals shouldn't even technically be able to declare war on Germany. Can anyone give me a clue what's going on?

 

[unmerged(135995)]

I have a similar question, related to stupid wars.

My vassals tend to declare war on me for no reason at all. No claim, no rebellious attitude (100% loyalty!) and, eh... No chance of surviving the actual rebellion.

I'm very curious as to the answer to this.

 

[jordarkelf]

Playing with high aggression?
I never play with a setting higher than coward.

 

[unmerged(135995)]

Nope. Normal/normal in my case.

 

[johnbecool]

same question.....

 

[unmerged(82381)]

Are any of their friends at war with Germany? I know that there is an event which permits you to DOW if your friend is at war with somebody. What I can't remember is if it only applies to vassals rebelling against a mutual liege or if it can fire for other people.

 

[unmerged(31020)]

The Prince of Crimea is indeed friends with the High Chief of Mecklenburg, who's at war with Germany (and has nothing to do with me). The Prince of Novgorod-Severesk isn't a friend nor rival of anybody involved though.

I remember an event that allows you to join a friend in a war only from the rebellion series... which doesn't mean there can't be others. After over a year, I still see events for the first time quite frequently.

 

[unmerged(31020)]

Well, I loaded the save that I had made at the instant of the DOWs as Germany, made peace with Crimea and Novgorod-Seversk using the byzantine cheat and saved again. Then I loaded that new save as both Crimea and Novgorod-Seversk to see if I could declare war on Germany. As expected, I couldn't, as neither had claims.

Does anybody know of a specific event that might have allowed the AIs to declare those wars? Are there any known bugs that could have caused this? Would anyone like to look at the save?

 

[TempestDK]

Well since Crimea is the friend of Mecklemburg, that is probably how he got involved in the war.

The ally, Lower Don ... does he happen to be a vassal of Novgorod-Seversk? .. if so, as soon as he honored the alliance with Crimea, Novgorod-Seversk automatically declares war also to protect his vassal, dragging in Uglich as his ally.

If Lower Don is not the vassal of NS, then I have no idea how NS got involved in that war.

 

[unmerged(31020)]

Lower Don is ally and vassal of Crimea. Neither Crimea nor Lower Don have any relation to Novgorod-Seversk (not even a friendship), other than being all (sub-)vassals of Russia - which is not at war with anyone at that time.

Even if there is some event (that I've never seen) which might have allowed Crimea to join their friend Mecklenburg in a war on Germany, this still doesn't explain what allowed Novgorod-Seversk to DOW Germany a splitsecond later.

 

[TempestDK]

Lower Don is ally and vassal of Crimea. Neither Crimea nor Lower Don have any relation to Novgorod-Seversk (not even a friendship), other than being all (sub-)vassals of Russia - which is not at war with anyone at that time.

Even if there is some event (that I've never seen) which might have allowed Crimea to join their friend Mecklenburg in a war on Germany, this still doesn't explain what allowed Novgorod-Seversk to DOW Germany a splitsecond later.

Well I know for a fact that such an event exists in DV ... so that is probably the way Crimea got involved. Most likely there is also a connection between NS and either Crimea, Lower Don, Mecklemburg or Germany (or maybe one of it's vassals). Just hard to see from your description what that could be.

Could be that either Jord or Veld have a good explanation

 

[jordarkelf]

There are certainly events for this, modelled after Manzikert (Byzantine vassals declared war on/independence from the emperor just as the battle with the Turk was starting). You might be unlucky enough to hit these.
I don't have the files ready to check now waht the conditions are.

Another possibility is your badboy limit -- if you have bad reputation, some vassals may get events to provoke a civil war.

 

[unmerged(31020)]

Found the event you're talking about: 8059
"Your friend is embroiled in a war, should you join him in this deadly struggle?"

Yes, that would explain how Crimea got in that war, but not Novgorod-Seversky.

I checked once more: NS is neither friend nor ally of anyone at war with Germany. They declared war immediately after Crimea and Lower Don (next line in log), which indicates there was no MTTH in play. Like they honoured an alliance... but there is no alliance. :wacko:

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Recipe for a peaceful realm:

- get rid of vassals who have claims all over the map (like converted Spanish emirs with the last name "Fatimid" or "Seljuk", or any convert actually)

- get rid of rebellious dukes by making them counts under some other prince

- get rid of rivals by making them counts under someone else

- give duke titles to people with many adult sons (they will disown the old counts and give their land to their own sons)

- make your vassals poor so that it is easier to bribe them (don't disband their troops after the war, call up the regiments of the rich vassals first, etc)

- if you need to "spin off" a duchy or kingdom, i.e. let it go independent, give it to someone who has no claims and isn't going to inherit any

 

[unmerged(31020)]

Recipe for a peaceful realm:

Wrong thread?

 

[Nick B II]

Was NS recently inherited by somebody?

The current Prince may have inherited the war.

Nick

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Wrong thread?

??

The OP asked what was wrong with his vassals, who declared war on random, much stronger enemies seemingly without reason. My post outlined the stuff I usually do to prevent exactly that from happening. Vassals without gold, without claims and without friend/enemy relationships with people outside your realm cannot cause such wars.

 

[WanderingKnight]

When you declare war to someone outside of your realm (as a king or prince) at least one of your vassals from a realm will declare the war upon same enemy right after you did it (everyone will join your side but one will acctually declare war). My guess is that this kind of behavoure is triggered even if anyone from your realm declare war, one other realm will automaticlly (and randomly) declare the war also. that would be explanation for NovogorodSeversky doing it. I guess AI doesn't understand that not all kingdom (you) declared war on Germany but just one of the vassals.

I think this is explanation for what happened.

 

[unmerged(31020)]

Thanks WanderingKnight! Your explanation seems to make sense.