Vassals & EU4

[Red John]

I'm confused. How will this work if you pass the 2nd last HRE reform? If we assume that all HRE reforms are the same, all HRE states will become your vassals if they like you enough. Should you be forced to go through years of losing your points because you simply wanted to form the HRE?

 

[Baneslave]

You don't "own" a vassal. Attempting to own a vassal defeats the purpose of vassalage, actually. Vassalage is supposed to be a contract between to nobles. One noble gives tribute and/or services to another noble in exchange for protection of his rights. The point is that being a vassal in EU3 was never fun and in most cases it wasn't practical to break free. It wasn't a balanced part of the game.

But if vassals provide less benefits and are more trouble than just annexing those provinces is, why keep them?

And being vassal sucks, but you will not fall into such predicament without coming so close to game over that situation would have been hopeless anyway.

 

[Jia Xu]

But if vassals provide less benefits and are more trouble than just annexing those provinces is, why keep them? And being vassal sucks, but you will not fall into such predicament without coming so close to game over that situation would have been hopeless anyway.

Less benefit does not mean no benefit. Some benefit is beneficial by definition of the word. That's just a limitation of our English language, unfortunately.

You probably haven't played outside of Europe very much if you have these opinions. Do a 1399 game as Georgia in the latest 5.2b patch and then come back.

 

[Richard Dolder]

But if vassals provide less benefits and are more trouble than just annexing those provinces is, why keep them?

Wrong culture penalties, lack of cores, appearing aggressive to your rivals, over extension penalties.

 

[Hector of Troy]

I'm confused. How will this work if you pass the 2nd last HRE reform? If we assume that all HRE reforms are the same, all HRE states will become your vassals if they like you enough. Should you be forced to go through years of losing your points because you simply wanted to form the HRE?

On my last campaign playing as the Teutonic Order ( formed Prussia, changed religion to Protestantism and became emperor), I didn’t even feel like passing the last three reforms. What for, if three quarters of the empire were already under my boots, answering to me as submissive vassals?

Less benefit does not mean no benefit. Some benefit is beneficial by definition of the word. That's just a limitation of our English language, unfortunately.

You probably haven't played outside of Europe very much if you have these opinions. Do a 1399 game as Georgia in the latest 5.2b patch and then come back.

That´s how I see it too.

Wrong culture penalties, lack of cores, appearing aggressive to your rivals, over extension penalties.

Good point. That would be enough reasons to make players choosing for vassalage instead of annexation of provinces.

 

[Hydro Globus]

I'm confused. How will this work if you pass the 2nd last HRE reform? If we assume that all HRE reforms are the same, all HRE states will become your vassals if they like you enough. Should you be forced to go through years of losing your points because you simply wanted to form the HRE?

Frankly, yes. When (admittedly, in the Vicky timeframe) Prussia and Austria(-Hungary) were fighting over dominance of all the German states to decide who would form Germany, they didn't get to do anything else in foreign affairs, because that fight over vassals (Vicky2 calls them "sphere of influence", but whatever) took all the effort of every diplomatically-minded person in the Austrian and Prussian court.