Okay, if paradox changes nothing else in the next mod, could I please request that they strip vassals of the power to create new titles for themselves. To my knowledge, there is no historical precedent for this at all. Obviously independent states should be allowed to create titles for themselves, but for a vassal count to proclaim himself a duke unilaterally is absurd. Also, as a ruler, it makes it nearly impossible to safely destroy titles.
Vassals creating their own titles.
- Thread starter Jack the Great
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This is a minor annoyance, yes. But I prefer it this way. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to create any title for myself when I start as a lowly count.
Yeah, have to think about ppl who likes to start small as well. Like I've never started as a king or emperor, usually counts or dukes and work my way up. It would be real frustrating if I can't create titles as a vassal count 
well, it could be made that instead of just making a title, you need "permission" to create it.
of course, that's impossible to mod since it's hardcoded anyway
of course, that's impossible to mod since it's hardcoded anyway
Make creating titles by non-independents depending on crown laws. If High or Absolute, vassals cannot create duke titles, if any other than Autonomous Vassals, they cannot create king titles.
This way player can still create titles if he manages to lower crown authority enough.
This way player can still create titles if he manages to lower crown authority enough.
You can apply triggers to the landed titles just like you can to titular titles.
You can easily mod it so no title can be made without proper crown authority or permission for example. But it would take quite a bit of title modding lol
This would just make for an unnecessary and frankly annoying hoop to jump through when playing as a vassal. You'd have to risk fighting multiple huge lower crown authority civil wars just to create one title, even if you plan to stay loyal to your emperor liege anyway.
I like it the way it is now. I avoid giving vassals counties in duchies I want to control. The rest, I give out. I make all the Kingdoms I can to avoid any ambitious dukes from making themselves a King.
Disallowing vassals from making titles would make it very hard to grow when you start as a count. I almost always work my way up from being a count as it allows me to build a stronger Empire eventually by ensuring I get the right counties close together and slowly expanding out my vassals and ensuring all my vassals are of the same culture/religion. If I could not make my own title, it would significantly limit my ability to conquer all the lands within my duchy and then create the duke title (I would have to get a claim on the duchy first and not just a claim on the counties).
TLDR: I don't want a change.
Disallowing vassals from making titles would make it very hard to grow when you start as a count. I almost always work my way up from being a count as it allows me to build a stronger Empire eventually by ensuring I get the right counties close together and slowly expanding out my vassals and ensuring all my vassals are of the same culture/religion. If I could not make my own title, it would significantly limit my ability to conquer all the lands within my duchy and then create the duke title (I would have to get a claim on the duchy first and not just a claim on the counties).
TLDR: I don't want a change.
Rollo and his successors were actually Counts of Normandy until Richard II adopted title of duke. They didn't bother to consult the French king, but monks of Fécamp invented a legend that pope had given the title to Richard II. French kings didn't actually recognize the ducal title until after 1204 when Normandy was in their own control.
Habsburg dukes of Austria wanted to become equal with the electors so they invented title of Archduke (relatively obscure title which some Frankish lords had used before) of Austria and kept using it despite the fact that Emperors didn't recognize the title. It was Habsburg emperor who made the title official after they had used it for decades without permission.
There are many other historical examples of this. I think that vassals should have that opportunity also in game and if it bothers the ruler he can always revoke the title.
Habsburg dukes of Austria wanted to become equal with the electors so they invented title of Archduke (relatively obscure title which some Frankish lords had used before) of Austria and kept using it despite the fact that Emperors didn't recognize the title. It was Habsburg emperor who made the title official after they had used it for decades without permission.
There are many other historical examples of this. I think that vassals should have that opportunity also in game and if it bothers the ruler he can always revoke the title.
Also, there are some titles that you can't make because of culture of other reasons. Like giving de jure Andalusia to an Andalusian so they can form it. Or finding someone who is Vlach to form Moldavia.
I do not see what problem is? You do not want to have any challenge in game? Will, just get game with I win button.
The only problem is that they will hate you for you holding another half of his "De Jure" counties, which is a bit unreasonable.
I don't see why it would be such a big deal under something like absolute crown authority. Seems reasonable to me.
Well, there are historical cases of vassals creating titles without liege permission, but it was mostly in decentralized realms with weak kings.
Austrians might've had invented Archduchy, because Holy Roman Empire had extremely low crown authority. Premyslids managed to crown themselves kings for same reason.
Some earl would not make himself duke under William the conqueror, neither some greek aristocrat could declare himself Despot of Serbia - only two duchies and three counties needed last time i checked!
Historically it should depend on crown authority. As for gameplay reasons, did nobody ever got annoyed that their vassals are making thmselves kings even when you have Absolute CA? And if you are annoyed that high CA is restraining you why start as count in Byzantium?
Also, CA should guarantee percentage of taxes in addition to levies.
Austrians might've had invented Archduchy, because Holy Roman Empire had extremely low crown authority. Premyslids managed to crown themselves kings for same reason.
Some earl would not make himself duke under William the conqueror, neither some greek aristocrat could declare himself Despot of Serbia - only two duchies and three counties needed last time i checked!
Historically it should depend on crown authority. As for gameplay reasons, did nobody ever got annoyed that their vassals are making thmselves kings even when you have Absolute CA? And if you are annoyed that high CA is restraining you why start as count in Byzantium
?Also, CA should guarantee percentage of taxes in addition to levies.
This would have been a good idea. However even independent rulers often needed permission from a higher authority, which for Catholics is the Pope and/or Holy Roman Emperor.
@ Mackus; the Premyslids did not invent the title king of Bohemia, the first Bohemian rulers with the title of king got this as a reward and it was a personal title. Finally Ottokar I sought and found permission by the king of the Romans, Holy Roman Emperor and the Pope for his hereditary Royal title. In fact he did this during a civil war in the HRE and and he also switched between the Hohenstaufen and the Welf king and back.