Vassals are not proselytizing

[Vohen]

Why won't my vassals use their court chaplain to proselytize in heathen land?

As a reformed Germanic, I have taken Poland and Lithuania in GHWs, which between Slavic, Romuva and even Christian, are all heathen lands.
So my immediate objective, before I can start declaring for Germany or France and tackle Christianity head on, would be to convert these lands to my faith.
I figured making use of the feudal hierarchy here would be very important to speed up the process, as each vassal would have their own chaplain to proselytize in these lands.
All good in theory, but in practice they don't seem to want to cooperate so much, after finding myself bothered that the process wasn't happening with the expediency I hoped for, I went to check myself through console, and much to my dismay, all of their chaplains were set to hunt apostates instead.
With the religious title revocation law passed, I also make sure that my vassals are of my religion at all times.
So, is there a way to influence the AI to proselytize or is it completely hopeless?

 

[NeverHelm]

What reforms did you pick? When reforming a pagan faith, only Proselytizing will actually make all vassal want to convert. Other natures mean only characters with a high AI Zeal (usually the ones with the Zealous trait) will order them to convert counties.

 

[DusanII]

What reforms did you pick? When reforming a pagan faith, only Proselytizing will actually make all vassal want to convert. Other natures mean only characters with a high AI Zeal (usually the ones with the Zealous trait) will order them to convert counties.

Do I understand well that if I want to convert some county e.g. to Christianity I should give it to Christian Vassal who has the trait Zealous? And he will convert his county by himself? (resp. his chaplain)

If yes, how this works if he has not the trait Zealous but he is Christian – will be sooner or later this county also converted to faith of this vassal?

Many thanks


d.

 

[Seskarl]

Do I understand well that if I want to convert some county e.g. to Christianity I should give it to Christian Vassal who has the trait Zealous? And he will convert his county by himself? (resp. his chaplain)

If yes, how this works if he has not the trait Zealous but he is Christian – will be sooner or later this county also converted to faith of this vassal?

Many thanks


d.

I think Christianity is considered a proselytizing religion so they'll most likely try to convert their lands even if not zealous.

 

[Thrake]

Do I understand well that if I want to convert some county e.g. to Christianity I should give it to Christian Vassal who has the trait Zealous? And he will convert his county by himself? (resp. his chaplain)

If yes, how this works if he has not the trait Zealous but he is Christian – will be sooner or later this county also converted to faith of this vassal?

Many thanks


d.

Christians/Orthodox and Muslims/Shias should actively convert and try to send chaplains to pagans (maybe some more too but that's for the major ones at least). Anything else (pagans, Eastern) should barely if ever prosoletize and not send chaplains to pagans unless you pick the relevant reformation (I think some reforms could still have *zealous* vassals trying to convert but overall you will have to do the job yourself).

 

[Dragatus]

This is one of the traps in the reformation system introduced by Holy Fury. The nature of your religion will determine whether AI characters of that religion will try to convert their provinces or not.

The effects are:
- Proselytizing: AI converts everything and you get a bonus that makes conversion faster.
- Dogmatic: AI only converts provinces with other religions from your religion group, but does not convert provinces with religions from other religious group.
- Unyielding: AI converts provinces if the character has a high Zeal stat (hidden attribute, not normally visible, best indicator is the Zealous trait).
- Warmongering: AI never converts provinces with religions from other religious groups and will only convert provinces with religions from your own group if it has high Zeal stat.
- Peaceful: AI never converts.
- Cosmopolitan: AI never converts and if you try to do it yourself you get a penalty that makes it slower.

 

[DusanII]

This is one of the traps in the reformation system introduced by Holy Fury. The nature of your religion will determine whether AI characters of that religion will try to convert their provinces or not.

The effects are:
- Proselytizing: AI converts everything and you get a bonus that makes conversion faster.
- Dogmatic: AI only converts provinces with other religions from your religion group, but does not convert provinces with religions from other religious group.
- Unyielding: AI converts provinces if the character has a high Zeal stat (hidden attribute, not normally visible, best indicator is the Zealous trait).
- Warmongering: AI never converts provinces with religions from other religious groups and will only convert provinces with religions from your own group if it has high Zeal stat.
- Peaceful: AI never converts.
- Cosmopolitan: AI never converts and if you try to do it yourself you get a penalty that makes it slower.

So every religion in-game has some attributes described above, correct?

E.g. I expect that Christianity has effect/attribute – proselytizing.

I tried to find in Wiki which religion has which effect – but I failed. Can you help me please with link/explaining which religion has which effect/attribute?

 

[Vohen]

Well damn, this should be explicitly stated in game.
I didn't choose proselytizing because the description made it seem quite weak, but clearly I was wrong.
Now, iirc, the description does say "AI will convert", but it doesn't say that it won't convert for the other doctrines, does it?
Goddammit PDX and their confusing interface got me again.

 

[TDarksword]

Specifically the options are set at the Religious Group level, and then overridden by the religious features.

If you look at common/00_religions.txt you can see the following lines:-

christian = {
   has_coa_on_barony_only = yes
   graphical_culture = westerngfx
   crusade_cb = crusade
   playable = yes
   ai_peaceful = yes # Will make Hordes lose their super aggressiveness
 
   ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
   ai_convert_other_group = 2 # always try to convert
.
.

muslim = {
   has_coa_on_barony_only = no
   graphical_culture = muslimgfx
   crusade_cb = crusade
   playable = yes
   hostile_within_group = yes
 
   ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
   ai_convert_other_group = 1 # try to convert if ai_zeal is high
.
.

pagan_group = {
   has_coa_on_barony_only = yes
   graphical_culture = norsegfx
   playable = yes
   hostile_within_group = yes
 
   ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
   ai_convert_other_group = 0   # never try to convert
.
.

zoroastrian_group = {
   has_coa_on_barony_only = yes
   graphical_culture = muslimgfx
   playable = yes
 
   ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
   ai_convert_other_group = 2   # always try to convert
.
.

Jewish_group = {
   graphical_culture = jewishgfx
   crusade_cb = crusade
   playable = yes
   ai_peaceful = yes # Will make Hordes lose their super aggressiveness
 
   ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
   ai_convert_other_group = 1   # try to convert if ai_zeal is high
.
.

indian_group = {
   has_coa_on_barony_only = no
   graphical_culture = indiangfx
   playable = yes
   ai_peaceful = yes # Will make Hordes lose their super aggressiveness
   hostile_within_group = yes
 
   ai_convert_same_group = 1 # try to convert if ai_zeal is high
   ai_convert_other_group = 2   # always try to convert

.
.

Note you can also see under some sub religions overrides to this eg:-

norse_pagan_reformed = {
       graphical_culture = norsegfx
       secondary_event_pictures = norse_pagan
       alternate_start = { always = no }

       icon = 20
       heresy_icon = 21
      
       ai_convert_other_group = 2 # always try to convert

This will only apply if you don't have Holy Fury though, if you do, the Nature effect (as mentioned about by @Dragatus) will override the base pagan reformed effect.

 

[Vohen]

Specifically the options are set at the Religious Group level, and then overridden by the religious features.

If you look at common/00_religions.txt you can see the following lines:-

christian = {
   has_coa_on_barony_only = yes
   graphical_culture = westerngfx
   crusade_cb = crusade
   playable = yes
   ai_peaceful = yes # Will make Hordes lose their super aggressiveness
 
   ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
   ai_convert_other_group = 2 # always try to convert
.
.

muslim = {
   has_coa_on_barony_only = no
   graphical_culture = muslimgfx
   crusade_cb = crusade
   playable = yes
   hostile_within_group = yes
 
   ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
   ai_convert_other_group = 1 # try to convert if ai_zeal is high
.
.

pagan_group = {
   has_coa_on_barony_only = yes
   graphical_culture = norsegfx
   playable = yes
   hostile_within_group = yes
 
   ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
   ai_convert_other_group = 0   # never try to convert
.
.

zoroastrian_group = {
   has_coa_on_barony_only = yes
   graphical_culture = muslimgfx
   playable = yes
 
   ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
   ai_convert_other_group = 2   # always try to convert
.
.

Jewish_group = {
   graphical_culture = jewishgfx
   crusade_cb = crusade
   playable = yes
   ai_peaceful = yes # Will make Hordes lose their super aggressiveness
 
   ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
   ai_convert_other_group = 1   # try to convert if ai_zeal is high
.
.

indian_group = {
   has_coa_on_barony_only = no
   graphical_culture = indiangfx
   playable = yes
   ai_peaceful = yes # Will make Hordes lose their super aggressiveness
   hostile_within_group = yes
 
   ai_convert_same_group = 1 # try to convert if ai_zeal is high
   ai_convert_other_group = 2   # always try to convert

.
.

Note you can also see under some sub religions overrides to this eg:-

norse_pagan_reformed = {
       graphical_culture = norsegfx
       secondary_event_pictures = norse_pagan
       alternate_start = { always = no }

       icon = 20
       heresy_icon = 21
   
       ai_convert_other_group = 2 # always try to convert

This will only apply if you don't have Holy Fury though, if you do, the Nature effect (as mentioned about by @Dragatus) will override the base pagan reformed effect.

Interesting, so it can be modded out, quite easily even...
Guess I'll do it for this playthrough, at least set it to high zeal, I'm already feeling kind of cheated anyway.

One question though, "same group" here for pagans refers only to heresies (in the case of reformed Germanic, old germanic), right?
Because even with it showing these set to the whole pagan group with always convert, the AI doesn't seem to want to convert the swathes of Slavic /Romuva land it has, Catholic is actually a minority on the border with Germany and Hungary.

 

[Mohreb]

I don't think modding will help with an ongoing save but if your playtrought is not ironeman you can make an uncompressed save and edit it.
It contains the description of all the features in the religion, with the posterizing number stated as before. Yours should be under germanic reformed or norse or something like that.

 

[Vohen]

I don't think modding will help with an ongoing save but if your playtrought is not ironeman you can make an uncompressed save and edit it.
It contains the description of all the features in the religion, with the posterizing number stated as before. Yours should be under germanic reformed or norse or something like that.

I see, thank you.
I figured the game loaded description from the folder, but if it's from the save file, that's all good too.

 

[Karlington]

What reforms did you pick? When reforming a pagan faith, only Proselytizing will actually make all vassal want to convert. Other natures mean only characters with a high AI Zeal (usually the ones with the Zealous trait) will order them to convert counties.

Only Proselytizing makes your vassals actively convert all religions. Unyelding makes them convert all religions if their zeal is high enough.

No other nature will ever have vassals convert non-pagan provinces.

On the other hand, Dogmatic actively converts pagan provinces, and Unyielding and Warmongering convert pagan provinces if zeal is high enough.

Cosmopolitan and Peaceful never convert any provinces ever.

EDIT: The above all refers to vassal behavior. You as a player are free to do what you want, though the nature of the religion can affect the speed of conversion.

 

[mrinku]

Note, however, that there ARE random events that can trigger to convert a province's religion (though Heresy is more likely than changing to the Ruler's faith). That's offset a bit by the ones that randomly change the *Ruler's* faith (watch out for those infidel concubines!). It's always a good idea to install a Zealous ruler in a heathen province, just to prevent backsliding. A particular thorn in the side of Pagans with Christian and Muslim minorities; if a vassal king gets religion you can quickly lose a LOT of rulers to alien gods.

 

[Azhcristokos]

One question though, "same group" here for pagans refers only to heresies (in the case of reformed Germanic, old germanic), right?

No, I believe it refers to all pagans. So a Dogmatic non-zealous reformed Germanic vassal will try to convert Suomenusko/Romuva/etc. provinces but will leave Christian/Muslim/etc. provinces alone.

 

[Dragatus]

That's correct, it's all pagans. The religious groups are Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Mazdan, and Eastern.

 

[mrinku]

That's correct, it's all pagans. The religious groups are Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Mazdan, and Eastern.

Plus Jewish.

 

[Vohen]

Huh, it's weird how my vassals aren't proselytizing even in their Romuva and Slavic lands then.

 

[Dragatus]

Plus Jewish.

Right. My bad.

 

[Azhcristokos]

That's correct, it's all pagans. The religious groups are Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Mazdan, and Eastern.

I think it's easy to forget sometimes that pagans all belong to the same group because of the different mechanics, namely that pagans can declare conquests and holy wars on other pagans, whereas Catholics/Orthodox/Miaphysites can only holy war their heresies.