Vassals always revolting

[ninoallen]

i know we all asked for it to be harder keeping realms together, but since conclave im always having revolts after revolts, no matter what i do im constantly at war with my vassals.

its pretty ridiculous having to go to war with a man who i just gave land to less than 5 years ago, or someone who i recently just defeated in another revolt.

vassals no longer leave factions when the have postive 60 opinion of you, i have vassals who have 70+ opinion of me but are still in a faction.

and the number one faction that constantly pops up is more council power !!! and then elective succession

its really annoying and tedious having to constantly put down the same faction over and over and over again.

recently played a game from 1066-1453 for the survivor achievement, and just thought id share my thoughts on it.

 

[Lightning Fast]

Ditto. It makes me want to bash my head against the keyboard. I have to deal with a massive civil war every 20 in-game years.

 

[StarSword]

My vassals have always been revolting. But now they're rebelling.

Seriously, though, I think civil wars ought to be rarer but considerably more destructive when they do happen. And the Increase Council Power faction needs a serious nerf to its availability.

 

[Patroclusmega]

Give to council the right to declare war and appoint as councilors your most powerful vassals. In this way they will not be able to join faction while concil is content and you'll have very little problem. Also vassals with NAP (not aggresion pact) toward you will not join faction, so marry your close kin to vassals to keep them quiet. When you know what to do it become a lot more simple.

 

[Iron Chariots]

Give to council the right to declare war and appoint as councilors your most powerful vassals. In this way they will not be able to join faction while concil is content and you'll have very little problem. Also vassals with NAP (not aggresion pact) toward you will not join faction, so marry your close kin to vassals to keep them quiet. When you know what to do it become a lot more simple.

Yep. Pre-Conclave I rarely had revolts anyway, but since Conclave I basically never do because you can force the majority of the strength of your realm to be simply unable to faction even if they want to.

 

[ninoallen]

its killed the game for me...but whatever i enjoyed my 2500 hours lol

 

[Pigeoncount]

It ruins my nation's borders, as my empire cannot have quite so many different kingdoms now. I have to either be extremely overpowering of my vassals, or just have a few, easily placated ones.

 

[mrstevehazzard]

Oh come on. They're not revolting, they're just a little ugly.

 

[kmh42]

Nearly every weak there is a similar post about faction-rebellions spam. I don't blame the people having trouble with it, though is very easy to get nearly no factions at all with NAPs. But there is no information at all in-game how to handle faction. This is not good. When players have to go to a forum to learn about a fundamental part of realm management, then something is wrong!

 

[StarSword]

Give to council the right to declare war and appoint as councilors your most powerful vassals. In this way they will not be able to join faction while concil is content and you'll have very little problem. Also vassals with NAP (not aggresion pact) toward you will not join faction, so marry your close kin to vassals to keep them quiet. When you know what to do it become a lot more simple.

Yeah, but the thing is there's at least some logic behind the factions that aren't "Increase Council Power".

• Willingness to join or create the Independence faction is dependent on distance from the realm capital, and is also modified by the de jure mechanic.
• Succession factions (usually elective)? They want power for themselves.
• Claimant? They hate you and think they'd like this other twerp better.
• Lower Crown Authority/Tribal Organization? They want power for themselves.
• Oust Ruler? They want power for themselves and they hate you.

But Increase Council Power doesn't make a lick of sense unless the vassal is already on the council or has a decent chance of actually getting there.

 

[FifthMonarchy]

They'd get a vote on wars if it didn't cost me two lovely demesne-size points. I prefer to run a small realm rather than share power with the begrudgers.

 

[Iron Chariots]

Yeah, but the thing is there's at least some logic behind the factions that aren't "Increase Council Power".

• Willingness to join or create the Independence faction is dependent on distance from the realm capital, and is also modified by the de jure mechanic.
• Succession factions (usually elective)? They want power for themselves.
• Claimant? They hate you and think they'd like this other twerp better.
• Lower Crown Authority/Tribal Organization? They want power for themselves.
• Oust Ruler? They want power for themselves and they hate you.

But Increase Council Power doesn't make a lick of sense unless the vassal is already on the council or has a decent chance of actually getting there.

I'm not so sure. Plenty of people who never have a hope of being elected to the US Congress get fairly passionate about executive overreach. Even if you don't get a place on the council, the assumption is that other nobles are more likely to share similar interests to you than your liege is. Certainly that's not always the case, but it's not entirely unfounded.

 

[AjayAlcos]

Vassals always revolting

Then again, the Middle Ages were revolting.

 

[StarSword]

I'm not so sure. Plenty of people who never have a hope of being elected to the US Congress get fairly passionate about executive overreach. Even if you don't get a place on the council, the assumption is that other nobles are more likely to share similar interests to you than your liege is. Certainly that's not always the case, but it's not entirely unfounded.

The difference is that elected officials in the United States are just that: elected. Even if you don't have a prayer of even getting elected to your local school board, never mind the White House, you still have a voice in the process.

Contrast with the realm council: it is a plutocracy of political appointees chosen by an absolute monarch. Compared to, say, the Duke of York, some random count in the ass end of Cornwall has approximately as much chance of getting a meaningful voice in e_britannia as the goose the Emperor was served for dinner.

 

[Iron Chariots]

The difference is that elected officials in the United States are just that: elected. Even if you don't have a prayer of even getting elected to your local school board, never mind the White House, you still have a voice in the process.

But valuing elections is a very modern idea. In general the nobility tended to have similar interests to each other, at least in regards to their relationship to the crown.

Contrast with the realm council: it is a plutocracy of political appointees chosen by an absolute monarch.

A feudal monarch, actually, but maybe I'm just picking at nits here. It's just a pet peeve of mine that people playing this game often imagine themselves as something like the Sun King several centuries too early.

Compared to, say, the Duke of York, some random count in the ass end of Cornwall has approximately as much chance of getting a meaningful voice in e_britannia as the goose the Emperor was served for dinner.

But generally speaking, the Duke of York is going to have many interests that align with the Count. Now, there is an argument that smaller vassals should want an increased ability for the crown to protect them from the larger vassals, but overall, the big duke and the small count are both going to want fewer obligations to the crown, and the small count can trust that the big duke is going to use his council seat to push for that. Besides, just as today you have plenty of temporarily embarrassed millionaires, I'm sure you'd have plenty of vassals who are sure that they will some day be one of the councilors chosen based on merit.

 

[Legionary Guard]

A feudal monarch, actually, but maybe I'm just picking at nits here. It's just a pet peeve of mine that people playing this game often imagine themselves as something like the Sun King several centuries too early.

Well, when one's arbitrary, inbred, imbecile vassals with a stat distribution that more resembles binary wants to be on your council because he has one more holding than the other five actually deserving dukes (relatively - they still suck and random peasant children would be more competent at their jobs) and is thus arbitrarily counted as 'powerful' by the game, and starts factioning and acting up in tantrums more befitting an exceptionally slow four-year-old than a peer of the realm, the average player tends to want to go Sun King just to shut them up.

In fact, CKII's taught me the value of meritocracy, because feudal warlords who are only in their high position because their grandfather was in it tend to be stupid, arbitrary, idiots, inbred, or some combination of the four. As M2TW puts it: Peasant girls laugh when this man tries to tell them what to do.

 

[es333]

Don't use conclave, problem solved.

 

[Iron Chariots]

Don't use conclave, problem solved.

Conclave makes vassal management easier unless you don't bother to use the new tools it gives you... which is on you. If you insist on ahistorically running a pure meritocracy for your council, then best of luck to you.

 

[es333]

Conclave makes vassal management easier unless you don't bother to use the new tools it gives you... which is on you. If you insist on ahistorically running a pure meritocracy for your council, then best of luck to you.

I don't use conclave and I rarely have problems with vassals revolting, unless I have just subjugated someone and he is of a different culture and religion than me.

 

[Iron Chariots]

I don't use conclave and I rarely have problems with vassals revolting, unless I have just subjugated someone and he is of a different culture and religion than me.

I do use Conclave and don't have problems with vassals revolting either.

Granted, I didn't have problems with vassals revolting pre-Conclave either, but now I have to do less work to keep the factions down. Previously I had to give out more gold/honorary titles, now I just throw a few council seats to moderately talented faction members and use the generic advisor slots if none of the reasonably strong faction members are good at anything.