Vassalization on peace?

[out]

I don't understand how this work...

I'm a duke, I grab another duke's title, I go to war and force them to yield the duchy to me. Now, when they accept, sometimes they automatically become my vassal, sometimes they become independent counts. Why?

Note that their vassals always become my vassals, just not the dukes themselves.

 

[unmerged(133776)]

I don't understand how this work...

I'm a duke, I grab another duke's title, I go to war and force them to yield the duchy to me. Now, when they accept, sometimes they automatically become my vassal, sometimes they become independent counts. Why?

Note that their vassals always become my vassals, just not the dukes themselves.

You can't vassalize someone of equal or greater rank. Until after the peace negotiation is concluded, they are still a Duke, equal in rank to you. Once they become a Count, then you can go to war with them again (taking the prestige hit) and vassalize them.

Edit: Or at least, that's the way it's suppose to be. If you're getting exceptions to this, the only thing i can think of is that their new demesne is completely in the territory that makes up that Duchy. Is the option to vassalize always there, even for the times they don't become your vassals? Did you have a claim on the County they ended up owning?

 

[out]

You can't vassalize someone of equal or greater rank. Until after the peace negotiation is concluded, they are still a Duke, equal in rank to you. Once they become a Count, then you can go to war with them again (taking the prestige hit) and vassalize them.

But that's not what happened in my experience.

For example, I just concluded a war with the Duke of Deheubarth and Duke of Galloway. In both cases I grabbed their ducal titles but not the counties and forced them to yield the duchies. Upon their acceptance, the Duke of Deheubarth became my vassal as Count of Dyfed, but the Duke of Galloway became independant Count of Galloway.

Both have happened to me more than once, but I can't figure out why.

ps. for more info: I am duke of all Ireland (not king), and both Deheubarth and Galloway have one vassal each, both of whom became my vassal automatically upon my assumption of the duchies. And I'm on latest DV 2.1beta.

 

[elDrastico]

further compounding the issue

in one game I as king of Navarra (and some others) went to war with the king of Poland, made him yield his king title and relinquished my claims on his ducal and county titles. He became my vassal as duke of something or other in Poland. A few months later my game crashed, and I reloaded the last autosave, which was before the war ended. I made the exact same peace offer, and he was now an independent duke...

 

[Nick B II]

M y best guess is that it depends on whether the new guy's primary title has a liege in the save-file. In my current game the Republic of Iceland is a vassal to Denmark, and both it's provinces (Counties 001 and 002) have lieges:

title = { 
    tag = C001 
    tier = county 
[b]    liege = DENM [/b]
    holder = { character = { type = 4712 id = 77810 } startdate = { year = 1253 month = january day = 2 } } 
    } 

title = { 
    tag = C002 
    tier = county 
[b]    liege = DENM [/b]
    holder = { character = { type = 4712 id = 77810 } startdate = { year = 1253 month = january day = 2 } } 
    claim = { id = { type = 4712 id = 83525 } character = { type = 4712 id = 83524 } date = { year = 1223 month = february day = 1 } } 
    claim = { id = { type = 4712 id = 144762 } character = { type = 4712 id = 144761 } date = { year = 1232 month = november day = 17 } } 
    claim = { id = { type = 4712 id = 165344 } character = { type = 4712 id = 165343 } date = { year = 1235 month = july day = 6 } } 
    }

All titles in CK have 4-character tags. A County's tag is CXXX where XXX is it's province number. Most Kingdoms and Duchies use the first four letters of their name. DENM is Denmark, ICEL is Iceland, etc. If you stole Iceland's title and beat him in a war he'd be demoted to Count and become a vassal of Denmark.

A Duke's Countys (or a King's Duchies), can have three liege's listed. Nobody (liege = ----), himself (liege = ICEL), or his liege (liege = DENM). It's kind of mysterious as to when each of these liege tags change.

Draztikus, here's my best guess. The first time you took Poland his new primary title had POLA listed as liege. The second time it had ----. My best guess is that Poland had a different group of Duchies the second time. Either he inherited a new Duchy with POLA listed as liege, or he granted a duchy with ---- as liege to somebody else.

Nick

 

[unmerged(75409)]

The workings of the CK save game are arcane and mysterious. Some of the checks that the game does to ensure things go their proper way are only done on loading a game. So if you have been playing for some time, and you save right before doing action X, you may get outcome Y. But if you then go and re-load the save game you made right before action X, the outcome may be something different from Y. This is because the save game does not restore completely the same game that you had when you created the save game.

 

[Worldcrusher]

I had the King of Navarra swear fealty to me (I was also a king), and stay loyal for about ten years. This was after I'd been playing for a while. I agree with Leviathan - the longer the game runs, the stranger (not buggier, just stranger) its behavior becomes.
Sometimes, it's even kind of cool.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I had the King of Navarra swear fealty to me (I was also a king), and stay loyal for about ten years. This was after I'd been playing for a while. I agree with Leviathan - the longer the game runs, the stranger (not buggier, just stranger) its behavior becomes.
Sometimes, it's even kind of cool.

Are you sure it wasn't the duke of Navarra ?

Kings can't swear fealthy to other kings, unless it is a kingtitle created by events. Like f.e. Jerusalem or the Knightly Orders.

Navarra isn't a kingdom that is created by events (unless you are using some kind of mod) and I never have seen, in all these years, someone report such a bug.

 

[Worldcrusher]

It was definitely the king - that's why I noticed it. But it was King of Castille, not Navarra - I remembered wrongly.

There was an orange square surrounding the vassal picture, rather than a blue swirly shield-shape, in my vassals list and everything. It was odd, because that vassal showed up twice in the list. I've had that happen a few times with other rulers (but never a king), too - in my current game, the countess of Dest-i-Kiptchak shows up twice in my vassals list. I don't know if that helps it to make any more sense or not.

I'm not running any mods, just regular DV. I don't have the game saved any more, though - so you'll have to take my word for it. I never reported it as a bug, because I liked it!