Vassal question

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1) Okay, I understand that vassalization requires several things, one of which, I believe is that you possess territory adjacent to the state you want to vassalize. How then, does Tuscany manage to vassalize Savoy (no border changes had occurred for either)? Is it different for minors? Or is it possible to vassalize a state that has a port, if you also have a port? Are some states predisposed to becoming vassals of others? Is it based on religion?

2) What does it take for Holland to become independent? In a GC I was playing, the revolts occurred. The rebels held a total of 6 provinces (4 of Spain's, 2 of France's), and they held 4-6 provinces, continualy fighting over them, for 15 years before they finally declared independence (at which time they only had 4 of them). Why did it take so long?

Another curiosity I noted in my last GC... Genoa managed to get itself elected Holy Roman Emperor, which has a hefty 'Diplomatic Victory Point' bonus associated with it. Over the next 30 years, Genoa went thru 15-20 different rulers, and each one was elected HRE. Not surprisingly, Genoa, which has otherwise done nothing, catapulted into 2nd place in the game, right behind Spain, and ahead of a dominating Russia and myself (as Venice). A stranger thing happened when Genoa finally lost the election, and it went to Savoy, even though Savoy is a vassal of Tuscany... Freaky.

 

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1) To vassalize, you don't have to be adjacent, you only need a good relationship and lots of brawn.
It is annexation that requires mutual borders.

2) I believe it is a random event that happens roughly at the same time in every game, if it happens at all.
Don't quote me on this one, though.

[This message has been edited by Jinxed (edited 07-11-2000).]

 

[Oranje]

Originally posted by von Curow:
2) What does it take for Holland to become independent? In a GC I was playing, the revolts occurred. The rebels held a total of 6 provinces (4 of Spain's, 2 of France's), and they held 4-6 provinces, continualy fighting over them, for 15 years before they finally declared independence (at which time they only had 4 of them). Why did it take so long?

I guess that programming the dutch revolt in the game so that it doesn't take just a few years to complete, is worth a compliment to Johan. Historically it took the Dutch about 80 years (1567-1648) to get their independance recognized with the Munster peace treaty that ended the 30 years war in Europe and the Dutch struggle for independance.
Ofcourse the Republiek der Zeven Vereenigde Nederlanden was declared a lot earlier than 1648 but Spain only gave up it's claims to the low countries in 1648.

greetings, Oranje

 

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How to solve the revolts: Kill all of the civilians and instate your own custosm

 

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How to solve the revolts: Kill all of the civilians and instate your own custosm

 

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Originally posted by APKicks:
How to solve the revolts: Kill all of the civilians and instate your own custosm

I've tried that, but the population in Holland, The Hague, Zeeland and Flanders never drops below 5000 and so I can never send colonists to convert them. Is this intentional? Is their a way to suppress their population below 5000 and send colonists?

 

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Originally posted by APKicks:
How to solve the revolts: Kill all of the civilians and instate your own custosm

Attila and Djenghiz Khan were both long dead and happily burried or burned to ashes when this game starts taking place.
I'm sure you're be heartily welcomed in every province you'll invade, spreading culture as you do.

 

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Originally posted by solitair:
I've tried that, but the population in Holland, The Hague, Zeeland and Flanders never drops below 5000 and so I can never send colonists to convert them. Is this intentional? Is their a way to suppress their population below 5000 and send colonists?

Ye Gods, you're ALL bloodthirsty tyrants out there.
I congratulate the brave Low Countries for their continued resistance against these crimes against humanity.

 

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Oranje, good point! It makes sense that it should take quite a lot of time for Holland to become independent.

The comments about ruthlessly suppressing the rebellions lead me to another question.... if you play as Spain, and you manage to fight off the rebels for a period of time, do you eventually win? Or is it simply better, once the revolts start, to say: 'Okay, well no more Holland for me. I'll just turn my attention elsewhere.'

 

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Originally posted by Chyron0:
Ye Gods, you're ALL bloodthirsty tyrants out there.
I congratulate the brave Low Countries for their continued resistance against these crimes against humanity.

I'm sure I'll killed over 1 million Dutch army rebels over the past 20 years of gameplay I leave standing armies of about 50k troops in each province with back up armies in surrounding provinces to invade if required. This is a total waste of resuorces though Why can't I just kill them all France will never surrender it's territories to rebels!

 

[Oranje]

Historically the fight for the low countries was fought in a number a ways from the dutch perspective; a very effective way of driving the spaniards out was found to be the deliberate inundation of large parts of the country. (spaniards are no good at swimming, much less their weapons ). On other occasions the dutch put on their ice-skates and devastated spanish ships that had become stuck in a frozen Suyderzee.
It's just like it is today; hardly any spanish enjoying their holidays in Holland. Far too cold and wet for their liking
Same goes for the french ofcourse

greetings, Oranje