Vassal Merchant Republics Inheritance Conflict

[Naughtius Maximus]

Hi there, starting a game in 769 as the Byzantine Emporer, and wanted to immediately get started vassalizing the Merchant Republics around me.

Venice was a choice pick of course, and I planted my weak son as Doge to disqualify him from succession. Thing is it also disqualified my second son, as "heir of House Isauros," which I assume is the Patrician house.

I ignored it and decided to land the second son as another Doge, this time in the Black Sea. This punted my heir even further down.

I decided to land the rest of my sons under the feudal system. In fact I don't have enough sons to go around, what with the mass assasinations, revolts then imprisonment, and holy war land grabs that the byzantines have access to in 769.

So now one generation in, neither of my two Doges have heirs, even though they have their own unlanded sons. In fact my second son just died and lost patrician status even though he had adult sons!

How does this work? Do Merchant Republics draw from brothers first and completely ignore sons or something? How did the death of my second son result in lost patrician status? More importantly, will I ever regain that patrician status or should I just tear down the republic and re-create it again?

 

[telge2]

And was a new patrician family created instead of the old one? Or your family just lost the doge election? Because if the last, it's fine, as your dynasty grows huge you will always win elections, because age is a deciding factor, and your family will always have very old unlanded male members. I mostly just hand out all titles (well, baronies not necessarily) to my dynasty (or to lowborns, who I marry matrilineally to my female dynasty members), in a few generations the number of your dynasty members will just skyrocket.

EDIT: An other benefit of this that if you only have dynasty members as feudal vassals you can switch to elective without the risk of losing your main title, and reduce the chance of regencies, and increase the chance of having a decent, or at least popular heir. Then again I have not played Conclave yet, so this strategy might have been nerfed since my last game.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

I'm not familiar with merchant republics yet, only just started playing the game and sticking with christian feudal for now. I did not pay attention but it appears there are 5 different patrician families (1 Doge + 4 Patricians) and my house isn't mentioned in them.

Will I ever get it back? If not I'm quite content to take a tyranny hit and revoke, remaking the vassal.

More importantly my first son is still alive in Venice as Doge, but his sons only have "Heir of Pallestrina" (Venice Castle.) I don't see the similiar "Heir to house Isauros" that used to be present in my now dead second son.

 

[telge2]

I'm not familiar with merchant republics yet, only just started playing the game and sticking with christian feudal for now. I did not pay attention but it appears there are 5 different patrician families (1 Doge + 4 Patricians) and my house isn't mentioned in them.

Will I ever get it back? If not I'm quite content to take a tyranny hit and revoke, remaking the vassal.

More importantly my first son is still alive in Venice as Doge, but his sons only have "Heir of Pallestrina" (Venice Castle.) I don't see the similiar "Heir to house Isauros" that used to be present in my now dead second son.

These are the mechanics of the merchant republic succession:
http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Patrician_elective

As you see, any unlanded male dynasty member is eligible as doge, and your nominee will always be the oldest unlanded family member. So yes, if you expand your dynasty as I suggested, you will get back the title, and also your family will win pretty much always, because you will always have very old unlanded family members.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Okay, understood. That means my eldest son in Venice should be safe.

For my second son in the Black Sea though, it seems like he completely lost his Patrician slot when he died. His unlanded son did not inherit and turned into a courtier. There's one new Doge and four other Patricians.

Will my dynasty ever be able to retake one of those patrician houses or should I just remake the vassal republic?

 

[telge2]

Okay, understood. That means my eldest son in Venice should be safe.

For my second son in the Black Sea though, it seems like he completely lost his Patrician slot when he died. His unlanded son did not inherit and turned into a courtier. There's one new Doge and four other Patricians.

Will my dynasty ever be able to retake one of those patrician houses or should I just remake the vassal republic?

So there is currently no patrician in that republic, who is your family member? That seems strange, a patrician family only should die out if there is no eligible male member of the dynasty. But if that is the case, that your patrician family died out, there is no way you could recover patrician status, you have to revoke the republic, and remake it. I suggest you wait with this till you have a bigger dynasty, so you will always surely have enough eligible males to ensure you patrician branches never die out.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Yeah, going to stick to just Venice until a hundred years later.

 

[HandicapdHippo]

The game is set up for only one patrician per dynasty, it really should stop you from making another republic with the same dynasty as it doesn't work properly.

 

[Martian Gamer]

There can only be one Patrician house per Dynasty in game. Thats why your son in the Black Sea did not continue but the Venetian one will.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Well that explains a lot. Thanks. Venice is a better MR anyways.

On another note are trade posts linked to the amount of MR dynasty members? They have a surplus of sons for my nepotism ambition (land every single member.)

It's so obsessive I cannot expand further due to lack of sons. Most everyone not in MR is duke level already.