Vassal Limit confusion

[Elef]

Hey everybody,

I read a lot in the forum and it helped me a great deal to understand the game and it's mechanics. But what I still don't quite get is the vassal limit. (I play without conclave). I distributed all my duchies except two to avoid the "Too many duchies" malus, but only gave everyone one duchy max. That resulted in me having only Dukes as direct vassals, no Counts anymore. So now I conquered Ireland, Scottland and most of England and I am exceeding my vassal limit . Giving mayors or abbots to my Dukes doesn't do anything, so what are my options here? Does giving one vassal multiple duchies do any good? Thanks in advance!!

 

[makaramus]

what? can you send a screen shot of vassal map mode?

 

[DPS]

Yeah, you can give 1 vassal multiple duchies and he still just counts as 1 vassal--doing so is standard procedure for many players. Also, you can form an empire and have kings as vassals. As an empire, you could own all of the British Isles and just have 4 vassals--the kings of England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. Actually if your demesne limit is high enough, you might be able to keep a small kingdom such as Wales owned by you personally and only need 3 kings under you. You can also give a king multiple kingdoms if you need to.

When giving out multiple titles to one duke or king, just make sure that you don't make one of them stronger than the whole rest of the realm put together.

 

[Bulldog773]

Laws also determine how many vassal you can have if I'm not mistaken. At the very least it will raise your demence limit. I would also do what the other player suggested and create an empire

 

[MK1980]

Giving mayors or abbots to my Dukes doesn't do anything

the limit only affects vassal counts/dukes/kings - your minor baron tier vassals don't count towards the vassal limit at all.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

i never really worry about 'too many duchies' as it's only -10 for every duchy over two.

 

[Serenity84]

i never really worry about 'too many duchies' as it's only -10 for every duchy over two.

It also lowers your demense levies, direct income and vassal taxes by 20% for each one over

Going over is fine in the short term like when you're in a regency or some illness lowers your stewardship. But doing it permanently isn't necessarily such a good idea

EDIT: Never mind. Got confused

 

[Zoomun]

It also lowers your demense levies, direct income and vassal taxes by 20% for each one over

Going over is fine in the short term like when you're in a regency or some illness lowers your stewardship. But doing it permanently isn't necessarily such a good idea

You are thinking about too many counties. Too many duchies is just a -10 opinion for each extra duchy.

 

[Serenity84]

You are thinking about too many counties. Too many duchies is just a -10 opinion for each extra duchy.

Ah, damn. That's true

 

[Castimirr]

I just rarely keep the dutchy titles for a second dutchy if I hold all of it personally.

 

[Saphire]

First off, screenshot? Second - you can ignore being over your vassal limit, but only for a very short time, since the penalties are rather drastic. To fix your problem, you can decrease centralization, as that slightly improves vassal limit.
Third - Become an emperor. You already have enough or close enough to form the empire of brittania. I trust you understand how to create it, but it might be a bit on the expenisve side. That will improve your limit, and allow you to distribute your kingdom titles.
Fourth - if the duchies you distributed are spawned, or just plain old have no family, murder them to get the duchy back and redistribute it to another duchy tier vassal.
Fifth - remember how you foolishly distributed your mayor and bishop titles? Load an earlier save and don't. Not only is that dumb, but can seriously hurt your economy in late game, as well as strengthening your vassals. In fact, I would love it if I ruled over a count who held all the county titles except for the ones I own, but with all the barony vassals going directly to me - he would be too far over his demense limit to have any troops, and I would get way too much money. Plus vassal armies aren't affected by them being over demense limit. As you have already found out, they don't affect your vassal limit at all.

 

[DPS]

As for things that increase your vassal limit:

Higher state diplomacy will increase your vassal limit.

Being an empire will increase your vassal limit.

Having Imperial Administration will increase your vassal limit.

Having your law on Viceroyalties set to "No Viceroyalties" will increase your vassal limit.

Lowering your Centralization will increase your vassal limit (but lower your demesne limit).

Did I miss anything?

 

[jonjowett]

As for things that increase your vassal limit:

Higher state diplomacy will increase your vassal limit.

Being an empire will increase your vassal limit.

Having Imperial Administration will increase your vassal limit.

Having your law on Viceroyalties set to "No Viceroyalties" will increase your vassal limit.

Lowering your Centralization will increase your vassal limit (but lower your demesne limit).

Did I miss anything?

Assuming you have Conclave, every power you grant to the council increases your vassal limit by 2.

Also, it's not state diplomacy that counts - you can't hire a better chancellor for increased vassal limit. What matters is your personal diplomacy skill and that of your spouse.

Wiki page on vassal limits

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I actually recommend not having hereditary vassal kings or hereditary vassal multi-dukes - they tend to get even bigger and cause problems in the long run.

If you must have king-level vassals, I recommend viceroys (requires legalism 4). Dukes turn themselves into multi-dukes on a regular basis - but you can break them up by demanding gavelkind. If you have a small empire, duchy viceroyalties and imperial administration are the best choice.