The problem is that AFAIK the liege doesn't get a claim on his titles as he should. And without calims no war.
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If the liege declares war, not only does he get the badboy hit for taking back the vassal (since there's no force-vassalize), he also get the badboy for "aggression" when he was the one provoked. It's absurd and ahistorical and shitty for gameplay.
He gets the badboy for claiming, I don't know if there is one for aggression like in EU2.
You can possibly negate the BB for agressor with the badboy command (giving negative bb) equivalent to DoWing at least. That would help somewhat.JuliusMuta said:
However declaring independance like that should probably raise your BB somewhat as well, but the country breaking away because they want to live free declaring war on the liege is also just as absurd as it was always the liege who would decide if it was worth declaring war to take them back.
I think near Relatives should not get that event, I went mad when my brother broke with his Duchy of Alger from my Kingdom of France....when he was my 3rd Heir and the King was Plague-Afflicted as his Heir was, and second son was ill, so in a pair of Years he Ended becoming King of France....
Yeah, I am not a huge fan of the way these events work either. But...they seem to be the pet events of the developers, so you pretty much just have to live with them. 
No, no, the events are ok, what is needed is a little revision of them to avoid strange thingsSecondReich said:Yeah, I am not a huge fan of the way these events work either. But...they seem to be the pet events of the developers, so you pretty much just have to live with them.
In any case, we won't be changing them before 1.5 is out. After that, I'm open to revisiting them, but before that you will have to mod them yourselves.
As said, we then end up with the situation with everyone at 100% loyalty if you didn't have these events able to fire if they weren't at low loyalty, ie the player only hands out claims to his family, reguardless of their stats pretty much and now can let them go to 0% loyalty with ease.Txini said:
Yeah, but you shall find as I do hilarious than a guy you are preparing to become King of other place but you miss a claim to install him, and also has 66% possibilities of Inheriting your Throne would decide to go independent
JuliusMuta said:
When the distance-from-liege-independant event was added, I and several other people agreed that it was best to make it a "positive" event to simulate the setting up of Crusader States in the Holy Lands. I would violently oppose giving claims in that event set.
The "random vassal declares random independence while a crusade is on" event, however, I would oppose giving a claim to the liege for one reason:
That event right there is why I begged Johan to make it so that counts re-pledge to Dukes first and then to the King. So if they go out on their own for a bit they will repledge, no hard feelings, to their Duke.
As I said, lowering the chance of the AI chosing to break free for the primary heir is definatly a good idea, but I also think that if you, as the ruler, are say 35 and your heir is say, 20 (and engergetic...or atleast not lazy), he's not going to be content to sit around for years and years until you kick the can. If he doesn't break free, he's going to make sure you have a fatal "accident."Txini said:Yeah, but you shall find as I do hilarious than a guy you are preparing to become King of other place but you miss a claim to install him, and also has 66% possibilities of Inheriting your Throne would decide to go independent
Grosshaus said:
At first I wasn't sure what I said that deserved what appears to be sarcasm but, after reading the other posts in this thread, I see how high emotions are running around this issue. I was trying to contribute by making a suggestion. I did not intend to foment civil unrest in the forum.
I like the idea of the heir having a lower chance and am glad that its being considered post 1.5 resulted from this thread. I have opinions on other statements/suggestions in this thread but will refrain from commenting on them.
BTW - Would "grazed" be mad cow disease?
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larryj133 said:
It wasn´t at all sarcasm. The worst of traits do give lasting negative loyalty, so reshaping some events to give that kind of traits to either the liege or the vassal would achieve what you were looking after.
Grosshaus said:
Ok, np. The quotes around nice made it kind of look that way, it's hard to tell intent with text sometimes. Sorry I misunderstood.
Those traits are pretty hard on the vassal. Do traits like suspicious or proud reduce loyalty? I always assumed they did but the popup doesn't break down what traits are causing the minus.
larryj133 said:
For "regular" traits such as proud and suspicious can reduce loyalty, but only on people that have opposing traits. Some traits fit, some don´t. So if you want to make sure a character is going to have lowering loyalty he must get one of the always negative traits such as grazed, excommunicated, heretic etc. Or well, even then two excommunicated characters might actually like each other, am not sure.
You could create multiple versions of the events that would fire based on which trait the ruler had and give the appropriate opposing trait to the vassal.Grosshaus said:
-Richard Campbell.
The only problem I have with this event is it doesn't immediately tell you WHO broke away. (At least it doesn't on the 8/15 version.) THAT would be nice to know so you can decide whether to go after them or not.
Jinnai's early post was dead on: Why should they be content to live in your shadow? And why should they care what your grand plan is? They have their own agendas, thank you, and apparently they don't include you. If you don't like it, DoW them.
Plus, it's a simple game balance issue. I can't speak for Vicky or HOI2, but EU2 has bad boy (like CK) and stability costs to make it difficult to build a huge nation. This makes it more challenging for a CK player trying to dominate the map.
As for relatives falling out of the succession line with elective law.... elective law is potentially a very powerful tool in your dynasty's success. I really don't have a problem with this kind of drawback. It helps balance it with say.. primogeniture, which almost guarantees stability so long as the rulers have a son, but risks that son being a complete idiot.
Jinnai's early post was dead on: Why should they be content to live in your shadow? And why should they care what your grand plan is? They have their own agendas, thank you, and apparently they don't include you. If you don't like it, DoW them.
Plus, it's a simple game balance issue. I can't speak for Vicky or HOI2, but EU2 has bad boy (like CK) and stability costs to make it difficult to build a huge nation. This makes it more challenging for a CK player trying to dominate the map.
As for relatives falling out of the succession line with elective law.... elective law is potentially a very powerful tool in your dynasty's success. I really don't have a problem with this kind of drawback. It helps balance it with say.. primogeniture, which almost guarantees stability so long as the rulers have a son, but risks that son being a complete idiot.
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