Vassal Declares Independence

[unmerged(45857)]

I think this event was meant to break isolated vassals away from a kingdom but it seems a bit sudden to me. I mean, my grandson with 100% loyalty & +5.1 a month suddenly decides to declare independence?

IMHO instead of a sudden declaration the event should reduce the vassals loyalty by 50% and give a -1 to the vassals monthly loyalty. That way it would cost more resources and attention to hold a distant vassal but an extremely loyal vassal would not just take off. Plus, since the event would continue to fire from time to time, the vassal would either have to be allowed to go or be replaced.

 

[unmerged(48100)]

There were many threads about that. As I suggested in them and suggest to you, you should go to realm disruption events and change independence to loyalty = 0,5 that is what I did. I don't know if it's possible to change the monthly loyalty though.

 

[unmerged(29883)]

Whilst I agree with the underlying logic of CSK's proposal, a slightly more detailed tweak would be necessary if you're looking for balance.

Realm disruption events don't trigger all that frequently, and since you're forewarned of them then its no terrible trouble at all for a player king, almost invariably wealthy, to bribe that vassal back to loyalty at no real cost. Its a bit like removing the teeth and claws of a tiger, but then still pretending its dangerous because it could, if left unwatched, slobber you to death.

Even halving the MTTH on a 0.5 loyalty version wouldn't actually solve the issue, since the player would again have more than adequate time to resolve the loyalty drop - and the likely result would be that the more frequent event triggering would just be an annoyance.

If you truly dislike the idea of a 'loyal' vassal suddenly turning out not to be (and how did *you* get onto the kingdom tier, exactly?) then I'd suggest a drop of at least 0.7-0.8, since that's at least dangerous enough to get them to declare independence on their own, although they probably won't if they were at 100% loyalty when the event triggered.

Dropping monthly loyalty via events is, unfortunately, impossible.

 

[unmerged(48100)]

I can agree with 0.8 loyalty drop too. It was just a test and since it worked okay I never changed it again. But I only did this after these events were driving me mad. When you loose 5 vassals per month although they are 100% loyal is only an annoying cheat of the AI to keep you from winning, not more.

 

[Grosshaus]

It is not possible to just assign a monthy piety loss of loyalty.

 

[unmerged(45857)]

I wouldn't mind a higher drop in loyalty. I might try doing it on my own. Although I prefer to play multiplayer so I'm not sure that's practical.

I did not realize that monthly loyalty could not be dropped via events since it seems that so many things affect it. I'm not a programmer or a modder but it seems like you could give the vassal a trait or something to do this.

I'm just trying to suggest something other than "poof he's gone" and while I have seen this discussed I haven't seen a proposal similar to mine. Perhaps I missed it.

In any case it doesn't break the game for me, just seems odd. The main reason I wanted to hang onto that vassal for a bit longer was to have a base of operations in the area.

 

[Grosshaus]

I did not realize that monthly loyalty could not be dropped via events since it seems that so many things affect it. I'm not a programmer or a modder but it seems like you could give the vassal a trait or something to do this.

A trait could indeed be added. A very "nice" one like excommunicated, heretic or grazed would almost guarantee trouble.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

There should be limits who can declare independence. It's not cool that family member to whom you have given your best lands trying to make him your heir declares independence.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

There should be limits who can declare independence. It's not cool that family member to whom you have given your best lands trying to make him your heir declares independence.

Oh, but why should they be content to live under your shadow? They are simulated thinking indivisuals with their own wants and desires. If it were done like that, it would be the same as just paying off everyone to 100% loyalty and then never having events fire.

So you can look at loyalty as the AI is appearing to be 100% loyal as far as you know. If they are less, that means they've let their hand slip some.

 

[unmerged(48100)]

But when this family member is 100% loyal and gets 10% loyalty per month and then suddenly gets independent something isn't right. Better to have a 80% drop in loyalty, if he wants to get independent then he shall declare war.

 

[unmerged(12435)]

But when this family member is 100% loyal and gets 10% loyalty per month and then suddenly gets independent something isn't right. Better to have a 80% drop in loyalty, if he wants to get independent then he shall declare war.

So why not making this two-step?
First one would be the drop of loyalty -80% till -100%.
Second could be event of vassal declaring independence and war - if his loyalty is e.g. less than 30%.

I agree that if vassal has 100% loyalty with +7 increasy,there is no reasonable explanation,why he sould break off. OTOH, player can easily keep loyalty most of the time at the maximum.. so mentioned event would fire in sparse cases like succesion of king,weakening of ruler etc.

 

[unmerged(48100)]

If his loyalty is less then 20% there is a big chance he declares war, when he has a chance.

 

[binTravkin]

WHEN atlast it will be fixed, I've been waiting for half a year (ever since I installed first patch) for this stupid event to be altered!!
I can alter it myself, no problemo, but it is not a solution for online play for example.

Seeing how vassals are always so loyal if you don't do stupid things, maybe the + for loyalty from some of the things could be reduced or something, but this 'a vassal declares independence' event somehow disrupts gameplay expierence.
I've been having half the europe conquered and got the king titles on meanwhile having 1/4 of that territory indepedent because of that sole event.
It is extremely annoying in the late game!

I mean cmon, guys, there have been a million proposals on this thing, some of them very good, yet still one of the most stupid events in-game is there!

 

[unmerged(21937)]

If you wish to play World Conquest style, then I do encourage you to disable these events, since their purpose is to convey the difficulty of keeping large and far-flung realms together, which was a serious problem in the middle ages.

Like Woz Early so brilliantly puts it, making these events stick to loyalty would make them pointless.

However, if you want, you can always add a loyalty trigger requirement in there. Open realm_disruption_events, find 6104 and change the first lines of trigger from this:

		condition = { type = is_vassal }
		condition = { type = age value = 18 }

to this:

		condition = { type = is_vassal }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = loyalty value = 0.8 } }
		condition = { type = age value = 18 }

0.8 is 80%, so change the number to suit your preference.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

Oh, but why should they be content to live under your shadow? They are simulated thinking indivisuals with their own wants and desires. If it were done like that, it would be the same as just paying off everyone to 100% loyalty and then never having events fire.

So you can look at loyalty as the AI is appearing to be 100% loyal as far as you know. If they are less, that means they've let their hand slip some.

Yes, but declaring independence can in elective law put them out of succession. Not nicest thing to happen, if few weeks before old king dies his heir declares independence and you lost your whole realm because of it.

 

[binTravkin]

Yes, but declaring independence can in elective law put them out of succession. Not nicest thing to happen, if few weeks before old king dies his heir declares independence and you lost your whole realm because of it.

Okay, now this should definitely put in the triggers so that first heir to the throne would have VERY lessened chance to pop out.
Is it possible to determine who's the heir in the code?

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Good point, adding to the list of "attend after 1.5".

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Yes, but declaring independence can in elective law put them out of succession. Not nicest thing to happen, if few weeks before old king dies his heir declares independence and you lost your whole realm because of it.

That's a risk you take in when you chose to use elective law (which is about the only drawback to this otherwise lopsidedly good system (because of unhistoric things the game imposes). I agree though the chance could be lessened if your the primary heir, but i don't think it should be eliminated, especially if the current ruler is say 20-40 and in good health.

 

[unmerged(3746)]

The real issue with this event is simply that the indepedent vassal should have to declare war along with its independence.

I'm all simulating how hard it was to keep vassals in history, but I believe it should lead to war -- like history, and add the civil war issue into the game that's been so missing.

Can someone list how to change the event to add the "declare war" trigger?

Plus, it's genuinely absurd that the king/duke becomes the "aggressor" when he declares war against a rebellious vassal; it's however historical that, if the king wants to put that kingdom back into his loop, he should get the drawbacks that come with replacing landed nobility.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

The real issue with this event is simply that the indepedent vassal should have to declare war along with its independence.

I'm all simulating how hard it was to keep vassals in history, but I believe it should lead to war -- like history, and add the civil war issue into the game that's been so missing.

Can someone list how to change the event to add the "declare war" trigger?

Plus, it's genuinely absurd that the king/duke becomes the "aggressor" when he declares war against a rebellious vassal; it's however historical that, if the king wants to put that kingdom back into his loop, he should get the drawbacks that come with replacing landed nobility.

Well it really is up to the liege to declare war. If the liege simply doesn't care, why would there be a need for war? However, I don't think the country declaring independance in such a way (ie liege is too far away event) should be given a claim on their former liege. They are essentially striking it out on their own and saying they're renoucing all former ties.