Vassal Autonomy and communication.

[Secuter]

So apparently my liege is allowed to interact with me, but not the other way around? How does that come?

It would be awesome for the vassals to have something to ask too, this would perhaps lower the liberty desire if they are given a yes.
Recently I made Lithuania create Kiev, Polotsk, Zhienrv (whatever its called), Chernygov and Smolensk. I chose to play as Smolensk, being a good vassal. Well, Lithuania is way more stable now, which I guess is good, and they also go to war, using their vassals claims. However, they never ever give lands to the vassals, even though this would promote their own cause. Why is this so?

I would be awesome if the vassals could ask their liege about stuff, perhaps like the HRE functions, in a way I guess.
Like:
Vassal autonomy, the more autonomy they the better (for them). This will depend on weather you want strong vassals to fight for you, thus giving them more autonomy and bonuses. Or if you want them to simply fall in line behind you - you will then get bonuses instead.

Very high vassal autonomy:
Vassals can declare war on each other and foreigners alike.
They will only give a small fraction of their income.
They will tend to be very happy about the liege, and not revolt. (+60 relations)
Vassals are not required to provide man power to their liege
Vassals will still obey all calls to war.
Cannot annex vassals.

High vassal autonomy
Vassals will be able to declare war on each other, but can still start wars on foreigners.
They will give a small amount of their wealth to their liege
They are required to provide man power.
Vassals will still obey all calls to war.
They are happy about their liege, and will usually not revolt (+30 relations)
Cannot annex vassals.


Medium vassal Autonomy
Vassals will not be able to declare war on each other, but can still attack foreigners.
They will give larger part of their wealth to their liege.
They will be required to give man power
Vassals will obey all calls to war
They are more reluctant about their liege and his will, and might try to find a way to get independence. (+5 relation)
Can annex vassals

Low Vassal Autonomy
Vassals will not be able to declare war at all
They will give a substantial amount of wealth to their liege
They will be required to give man power
Vassals will obey all calls to war but not provide much of assistance.
They are very reluctant about their liege and will try to find a way to gain independence (-25 relation)
Can Annex vassals at a slightly lower cost.

Very low vassal Autonomy
Vassals are not allowed to declare war
Vassals are only allowed royal marriage with the liege
They will be required to give man power
Vassals will obey calls, but not provide much of assistance.
They will hate their liege and give (-60 relation)
Can annex vassals at a substantial lower cost

 

[magnusvejby]

Well what if a vassal declare a war and loose, is the enemy then free to take all the land he wants, and a vassal that declares war will almost always loose coz he dont have any allies, the reason that works in ck2 is when you loose a aggressive war you only loose prestige and money, but thats not how peace deals works in Europa.

 

[t6.28]

Well what if a vassal declare a war and loose, is the enemy then free to take all the land he wants,

Maybe, if a peace deal was accepted by the vassal, it could also be send to the overlord and if he rejects, he will get called into the war?

 

[Maq]

Maybe, if a peace deal was accepted by the vassal, it could also be send to the overlord and if he rejects, he will get called into the war?

I believe your suggestions make the thing closer to medieval reality, but to introduce such a sophisticated system, considering all possible interactions, would be very difficult, I imagine. A game, like any model, basically turns analog reality into digital "true or false".

 

[NateDaemon6458]

Well what if a vassal declare a war and loose, is the enemy then free to take all the land he wants, and a vassal that declares war will almost always loose coz he dont have any allies, the reason that works in ck2 is when you loose a aggressive war you only loose prestige and money, but thats not how peace deals works in Europa.

if the vassal gets -10 war score then the overlord gets a call and can choose to let it die on its own accord, or join in to try and save it, if decline breaks lordship. That way the overlord has even more incentive to keep autonomy lowish

I think making each of those options toggle for a liberty desire /relation effect for higher autonomy would work best, because maybe I want my vassal to give me the manpower but also kill my other vassals for fun, or vice versa, or if not making reining in your vassals difficult and make it replace annexation or be the road to annexation,(slowly bring your vassal to its knees until you own it at basically 1% autonomy, ANNEXED

 

[Secuter]

if the vassal gets -10 war score then the overlord gets a call and can choose to let it die on its own accord, or join in to try and save it, if decline breaks lordship. That way the overlord has even more incentive to keep autonomy lowish

I think making each of those options toggle for a liberty desire /relation effect for higher autonomy would work best, because maybe I want my vassal to give me the manpower but also kill my other vassals for fun, or vice versa, or if not making reining in your vassals difficult and make it replace annexation or be the road to annexation,(slowly bring your vassal to its knees until you own it at basically 1% autonomy, ANNEXED

-10 is perhaps a bit lowish. The enemy would still be able to beat them down, and in the end make them pay a large sum of money or trade power etc. Giving land off to the enemy should only be available if the enemy have a core on the piece of land. And perhaps not even then, but there must be a risk of attacking another nation, even if you are a vassal. I don't think you should break overlord ship, just because you refuse to join a war that they startet in the first place. All be it, if they get to -50 war score, you should get the "either you or your vassal will get indepence" something like that.

Well, that could also work. It was very different was various countries did. Some "allowed" their vassals to be rather strong, which also meant that they would expand the realm themselfs and provide larger forces for war because the crown didn't suppress them much.
Later on, different countries would rather rely on a strong centralized state to handle all military matters instead of relying in vassal forces. This would also allow for a new playstyle towards vassals, and further fleshout the "common sense package" which in my opinion only offered half the plate (only for the liege)