Vassal AI: Let them form alliances, dammit!

[Azarias59]

Have you ever seen a vassal form an alliance in 2.5?

If you have, kindly send me a screenshot. Because I have not seen a one. I have been a vocal supporter of the 2.5 patch, but I cannot f***ing fathom why this hasn't been addressed yet. As long as AI vassals refuse to take the initiative to form alliances, a human player will win every single internal war. That is a threat to balance, and, quite frankly, makes the game ridiculously easy as a count or a duke.

If you would please, lend me your voices. Perhaps if we yell loud enough, we might get this problem addressed.

 

[StarSword]

I know for a fact they did before the patch: I once had a cluster of my vassals launch a claim war for a neighboring county. Haven't seen it since then, though.

 

[Azarias59]

I know for a fact they did before the patch: I once had a cluster of my vassals launch a claim war for a neighboring county. Haven't seen it since then, though.

Prior to the patch, alliances were automatically formed. The AI didn't need to take initiative. I didn't very much like the previous system - mostly because now we can make alliances with our aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, grandparents, and grandchildren. Though, unfortunately, I don't ever see the AI negotiating pacts with these people either. The AI also needs to take the initiative to re-negotiate pacts, now that they are lost upon death. But they don't seem to do this either! I'll make a whole thread raging about that eventually. I really thought that this shit would have been addressed in 2.5.2.

 

[Finnway]

One time I saw a vassal call in 15k troops of same dynasty allies.

 

[klopkr]

I almost never see alliances at all since the change. Imo the AI should ask anyone it can for one. I should be inundated in requests from the AI.

 

[General Karthos]

I had an AI in Eastern Europe ask to ally with me in the British Isles. So they CAN take the initiative... they just almost never do, so far as aI can tell. And they apparently have no value judgement on who's worth allying with. Neither of us could help the other in their wars without sailing halfway across the known world, then marching through half of Europe. (or vice-versa).

 

[naisel]

I had an AI in Eastern Europe ask to ally with me in the British Isles. So they CAN take the initiative... they just almost never do, so far as aI can tell. And they apparently have no value judgement on who's worth allying with. Neither of us could help the other in their wars without sailing halfway across the known world, then marching through half of Europe. (or vice-versa).

Before, such an ally would almost never answer to a call to arms, because of the distance modifier, the previous system was almost perfect :/

 

[Thrake]

I had an AI in Eastern Europe ask to ally with me in the British Isles. So they CAN take the initiative... they just almost never do, so far as aI can tell.

Same here. The rules for acceptance of an alliance should really be made much easier to fulfill for the AI. It's a great step to see AI that barely ever marry lowborns anymore, but it's pointless if it doesn't commonly end up in a factual alliance. NAP in itself is of little use beyond placating a powerful neighbour and if I have no alliances, I'm up for allying pretty much anybody and so should the AI. The only limit should probably for rulers that have many children, a soft cap to willingness to sign alliances (like a "-" modifier for each ongoing alliance; otherwise you just spend your time fighting other's wars!).

 

[Asiak]

I see vassal AI forming more then a few alliances.

Usually to no avail because its with some shit count but. They do do it post Conclave, and no I don't have any screens I'm not home.

 

[Azarias59]

I see vassal AI forming more then a few alliances.

Usually to no avail because its with some shit count but. They do do it post Conclave, and no I don't have any screens I'm not home.

Please post a screenshot.

 

[jpinard]

I haven't been looking to see if vassal AI forms alliances. But Kings and Emperor's appear to make alliances just fine. I've made terrible mistakes many times by declaring war on someone only to realize after I raise my troops that he had 2 or 3 allies who suddenly raise a plethora of troops as well.

But this is in a Frenhcy Charlamagne start so maybe things are different in other places and times.

 

[Bortron]

I just looked around the map. No alliances, vassals or independent, other than the automatic tribal ones.

 

[Asiak]

Please post a screenshot.

Lol.

I accidentally might have proved your point.

I found one in a fairly diligent search across two separate games one several centuries old.

One. A Khan allied to another Khan under the same Khagan. I would have expected to see at least a few more.

 

[StarSword]

Lol.

I accidentally might have proved your point.

I found one in a fairly diligent search across two separate games one several centuries old.

One. A Khan allied to another Khan under the same Khagan. I would have expected to see at least a few more.

Interesting. That suggests that the problem isn't that vassals DON'T form alliances, but rather that they don't pursue them as aggressively as players do.

 

[Azarias59]

Lol.

I accidentally might have proved your point.

I found one in a fairly diligent search across two separate games one several centuries old.

One. A Khan allied to another Khan under the same Khagan. I would have expected to see at least a few more.

Have you ever seen this happen under a feudal realm though? From what I understand, the nomad AI is different.

 

[Rubidium]

I see independent rulers do it fairly frequently.

One thing I have noticed is that opinion between rulers is often not enough to overcome any base reluctance renew a NAP or form an alliance. As a player I can handle that fairly easily (by increasing their opinion however), but I'm wondering if maybe that's the origin of the problem (or at least part of it)?

 

[Azarias59]

Same here. The rules for acceptance of an alliance should really be made much easier to fulfill for the AI. It's a great step to see AI that barely ever marry lowborns anymore, but it's pointless if it doesn't commonly end up in a factual alliance. NAP in itself is of little use beyond placating a powerful neighbour and if I have no alliances, I'm up for allying pretty much anybody and so should the AI. The only limit should probably for rulers that have many children, a soft cap to willingness to sign alliances (like a "-" modifier for each ongoing alliance; otherwise you just spend your time fighting other's wars!).

Right! The AI seems plain uninterested in self-preservation these days. Why is it that we don't see "political concerns +++" when trying to form alliances with the AI? It's like you have to be over +25 opinion with the ruler in order for them to consider the offer! Which is especially ridiculous, as the AI doesn't make use of the "send gift" feature like a player would.