Various PvP balance suggestions

[sanityslayer42]

Hello,

There are various balance changes that have been made which I personally don't agree to and other changes that I think should be made.

(1) - Why Earth is imba

1. Rock Snipe [5D] - this has already been discussed and balance changes are currently being tested in the closed beta, so I'm not too concerned.
   
2. Geysers [EDQQQ] - well, actually just walls [ED] in general. They don't have a fair way to be countered. We need armor [ED] to save yourself from flying and you need a water aura [EQ] to still be able to conjure lightning (so to Teleport, Haste, Revive and other essential stuff). But even with Water-armor [EDQ] you still get knocked-back, which buys your opponent a ridiculous amount of time to imbue [QRASER] and kill you. Imo armors [ED] should prevent this knockback, that way you're not defenseless and you can still cast stuff to survive.
   
3. Earth stun [D-area] - like with the walls [ED] it doesn't have a counter, when in range of it you get knocked back whether you like it or not.
   
4. Bombing [DQ], [DS], [DF], [DR] - The art of Magicka it to use elements that your opponent isn't defended against. However bombs that directly hit Wizards cause damage (either to the armor, or hp) regardless of what defense they have. Dying to meteors [SDF] when you have a [SAFE] aura is kind of enraging.

(2) - Why nerf beams?
Beams seem ridiculously useless in PvP. You can defend yourself from it in 1 button press and 1 mouse click (E-click). I don't see why the channelling duration of beams was lowered, it just makes adventure less fun and less funny (because we don't cross beams that much anymore).

(3) - Pure self shield
It's really a long ranged defense imo, because at close range it can be countered in countless ways and because the knock-back effect doesn't help much. I don't see why the duration was nerfed to badly, because now it's really useless. Even at far range you can still water bomb a wizard with [E]. I think if the pure shield lasted longer then maybe it would make it more viable.

(4) - Water-aura [EQ] is kind of pathetic
The main danger about water is the push effect. Being wet is bad but will rarely get you killed. The only time you ever see someone use [EQ] is with armor, because there's no point in having [EQ] on it's own. Imo [EQ] should be enough to prevent Water push. After-all, other bombs such as Fire, Cold, Arcane and Life only need 1 element to protect yourself from it.



Obviously, not everyone will agree to this. So... discussion? Feel free to add any suggestions not mentioned.

P.S. Imo the topics discussed about earth really need some sort of fixing.

 

[Al. I. Cuza]

Can't say I agree with everything.
(1)2. Walls aren't by any stretch of the imagination as op as you make them out to be. They are ridiculously simple to avoid, you don't even need any armor against it.

3. Earth stun can possibly be considered op. Although I do not think it is, because it's range is quite small and the channelling time is pretty long (as with any area spell).

4. Bombing SDF vs SAFE might kill you if you get hit by the rock part of the bomb. I don't see the problem there.

(2) There is not really any way you can make beams more useful, imo.

(3) The pure self shield was very op before the nerf, now I think it has exactly the right duration.

(4) You don't actually need water aura. You can just F yourself. Imo cold resistance is more important than any other debuff.

 

[sanityslayer42]

(1)2. Walls aren't by any stretch of the imagination as op as you make them out to be. They are ridiculously simple to avoid, you don't even need any armor against it.

I think you misunderstood me. I don't mean running into a wall carelessly. I mean when the wall gets summoned right below you're feet. It's a little trickier to dodge.

Against ice walls you don't get knockback, you just move to the side a little (which is what makes QRASER so useless against SARE because it just buys your opponent time).

But with earth walls you fall on ground, which is ridiculous because there's no way to counter it and buys the caster time regardless of the opponent's defense.

 

[Vesuvius]

Beams could use a rotation speed buff imo. The duration isn't the issue in PvP but I agree it ruins them for adventure mode.

The other things you listed besides rock sniping aren't really problems imo.

 

[Al. I. Cuza]

But with earth walls you fall on ground, which is ridiculous because there's no way to counter it and buys the caster time regardless of the opponent's defense.

How is that op or ridiculous? Some things don't have counters, you just have to dodge them. And as long as you aren't right beside your opponent you won't get hit by any wall at all.

 

[zenstar]

You can just F yourself.

If we weren't talking about Magicka then that comment could be considered pretty rude
Made me laugh when I read it ^_^

 

[Vesuvius]

Use rock armor and you wont get knocked back or down.

 

[sanityslayer42]

How is that op or ridiculous? Some things don't have counters, you just have to dodge them.

I still think that earth walls should act as ice walls.

For example, if you cast a QRASER against SARE it only makes sense that it puts you in disadvantageous situation even if you get a perfect hit. While you're casting the QRASER the opponent can use this to charge a rock for instance.

But if you use a EDFFF on a SAFE or DEFS, if you get a good hit you can easily quickly follow it up with a EDQQQ or a QRASER before he even gets up. And in that case, there's little he can do since he barely has time to move. All he can really do is place a shield wall E and pray but lag doesn't kill him.

And as long as you aren't right beside your opponent you won't get hit by any wall at all.

That doesn't mean it's balanced. That's like saying 5D isn't imba as long as you don't stand somewhere where he has a clear shot and you don't let him hit you. Imo, knock-back is probably the most imba of attacks because it doesn't have a natural counter, and it should imo (although you have a point about D-area, in has short range and a long cast time which makes it less viable). In fact, I actually find rock sniping to be more balanced than the knock-back of earth walls.

Use rock armor and you wont get knocked back or down.

I've just tried that and it doesn't seem to work. If that was the case however it'd be great!

(2) There is not really any way you can make beams more useful, imo.

Hence why nerfing them in the first place was useless.

 

[Calathas]

If we weren't talking about Magicka then that comment could be considered pretty rude
Made me laugh when I read it ^_^

Ah, I love it that atleast someone isn't taking this too seriously ^^

 

[Al. I. Cuza]

But if you use a EDFFF on a SAFE or DEFS, if you get a good hit you can easily quickly follow it up with a EDQQQ or a QRASER before he even gets up. And in that case, there's little he can do since he barely has time to move.

You can selfcast while you are knocked down. So changing aura is not hard.

 

[sanityslayer42]

You can selfcast while you are knocked down. So changing aura is not hard.

Indeed, but you can't defend against both a geyser and ice wall of doom, so you still need move away from the wall that hit you, which can only be done once your wizard stands up, and by that time the opponent has already casted a follow up... So in practice it's not that easy.

 

[Vesuvius]

Try simple E. The water geyser will send you flying and the shield should protect from the impact assuming it doesn't go down before(you might have to be prepared to cast it again very quickly).

 

[Al. I. Cuza]

Indeed, but you can't defend against both a geyser and ice wall of doom, so you still need move away from the wall that hit you, which can only be done once your wizard stands up, and by that time the opponent has already casted a follow up... So in practice it's not that easy.

You can protect against both. QRASER + Ctrl and you can survive both.

 

[sanityslayer42]

You can protect against both. QRASER + Ctrl and you can survive both.

I've tried that with a friend before and it didn't seem to work. If you get hit by the geysers then by QRASER imbue you'll be knocked-back and frozen, and the QRASER-armor won't hold long against QRASER imbue. And if the cast is fast enough, he can even freeze you before you get up (making it totally impossible to avoid the Ice wall of doom).

Basically, if you're opponent is fast, accurate and uses this strategy, "not getting hit by the geysers" is pretty much the only way for you to win. Because once you do get hit there's little hope for you. Your only hope is to place an E wall (or should I say Wall-E ).

Try simple E. The water geyser will send you flying and the shield should protect from the impact assuming it doesn't go down before(you might have to be prepared to cast it again very quickly).

I'll give that a try, it still seems like a rather risky tactic though.

 

[Al. I. Cuza]

And as I said previously, it is very easy to avoid the geysers anyway.

 

[sanityslayer42]

I don't agree to that. It depends on the map and situation. Sure, at long range you can avoid it easily, but at close range however it's a little more complicated and more subjective.

It's very easy to get a hit with geysers because you can either use waterbombs to deny TP and Haste, or use Cold to get an easy hit. I don't quite see how you can "avoid" a geyser at close range, you can just "make him miss". But if you're opponent is equally good as you he won't miss, he'll anticipate your evasions by predicting your movement. So whether or not the geyser hits you at close range is not up to you to decide, it's based on the caster's skill.

Even if you find that avoiding geysers is easy, I still think that "avoiding the geysers from hitting you" doesn't seem like a fair counter at all. Earth walls shouldn't have knock-back and it deserves a more simple and reliable counter. I see no obvious reason why Earth walls should cause knock-back because imo it's a defensive move and not an aggressive move (unless you use something like EDFFF, in which it's the FFF that causes aggression and the ED provides some protection).

Ice walls behave as such, so why should Earth walls be more powerful?

 

[Al. I. Cuza]

You will have to show me how you can actually hit a geyser and follow it up with anything good afterwards. I've never been hit by that combo you described, nor do I think anyone has the time to do it properly.