Variable prestige hit for war declaration stumps me

[unmerged(3565)]

I'm sure we've all noticed that it's not always -100 prestige for declaring war. Thing is, I can't figure out what makes it lower sometimes.

Certainly the strength of the opponent has something to do with it, as declaring on a major almost always costs less than 100 prestige.

There's something else going on, though. In my current game, some very minor countries were only -1 (one) to declare. Abu Dhabi, for example, and Zanzibar. Hawaii. Other essentially identical countries (say, Johore, or Travancore, or Bali) were -100s.

I can't find any common characteristic that distinguished the two groups. I heard it suggested that it may have to do with negative prestige, but that's not it. Countries in the negatives range across the map when it comes to the war declaration hit.

Does anyone have a clear idea of what makes a difference? I feel kind of stupid polling the whole world every few years looking for "easy targets". "Hmm, can I declare war on Madagascar cheaply? No...how about Oman? No...oh, look, Abu Dhabi's only a minus one. Abu Dhabi is and always was our enemy! Attack!"

 

[egross]

My guess -- and it is only an educated guess -- is that it has to do with whether the target nation is civilized, uncivilized and/or whether it shares the same cultural/religious background as you. It's one thing for like to fight like, that's viewed as uncivilized; but, if you're picking off the savages, or the infidels, then your colleagues tend to view it with less alarm.

Anyway, that's my theory, and I'm sticking to it until something better comes along.

 

[Kriegsspieler]

Would I be correct in supposing that the "diplomatic insult" event can sometimes trigger lower prestige cost for declaring war against the transgressor? I haven't systemtically paid enough attention to its conseuqences to be sure.
But for the rest of it, I am with you on the opacity of the process!

 

[unmerged(760)]

i cant give you any additional info, but prestige of the target seems to play a major role.

 

[unmerged(24031)]

Or how about when I check to see if I can DOW Denmark again, and it says "Violating a Treaty will cause a massive prestige loss (-100)", so I go and check on Switzerland, and it says "Prestige Cost: -100"

Unless violating treaties gives you superbadboyextreme, something MUST be wrong.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Or how about when I check to see if I can DOW Denmark again, and it says "Violating a Treaty will cause a massive prestige loss (-100)", so I go and check on Switzerland, and it says "Prestige Cost: -100"

Unless violating treaties gives you superbadboyextreme, something MUST be wrong.

I think violating a treaty gives you -1000 prestige, or else it's -100 on top of the -100 for going to war. I also think the Monarchies and Consitutional Monarchies and Presidential Dictatorships take less prestige for going to war, I seem to recall that showing up in a post or maybe the manual...

 

[unmerged(25591)]

I think violating a treaty gives you -1000 prestige, or else it's -100 on top of the -100 for going to war. I also think the Monarchies and Consitutional Monarchies and Presidential Dictatorships take less prestige for going to war, I seem to recall that showing up in a post or maybe the manual...

Well done! I've just remembered, that's in the manual...different govs get different prestige loss for declaring war on different other govs.

 

[unmerged(3565)]

The bounding case is Oman and Abu Dhabi in my current game. Two countries with more similarities would be hard to fine, yet one is a minus one, and one is a -100. Both had negative prestige as well. So far as I can tell, the two countries are identical in culture.

When I get home, I'll check if they both have the same kind of government.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Yeah, one of them might be Commie or something.

 

[unmerged(760)]

i also think that BB or the mystical BB/countrypower ratio plays a role. DoWing the ottomans or france often costs something like -38 or -52. also good relations might raise the price

 

[unmerged(17724)]

i cant give you any additional info, but prestige of the target seems to play a major role.

I disagree, in my current game as the US, Great Britain and I are 2/3 in prestige. I declared war on Britain with only a 22 prestige hit, while declaring war on the 14th ranked French would cost me 100 prestige. This example is not necessarily conclusive, but I have noticed the general inconsistencey of the prestige hit. It would be nice to get some clarification on this issue.

 

[Fawr]

I read on one of the tooltips that it is cheaper to declare war on great powers.

 

[unmerged(20006)]

As a test I loaded up a new game as the Ottomans and checked the prestige cost for Delcaring Colonial war on Abu Dhabi and Oman. For both it was -21. This was without unpausing the game.

They both had the same relations to me, same culture, etc...

Its gotta be something to do with a mix of Prestige, Industry, Army Size, Population and maybe colonial holdings.

I would like to know the formula for this as well.

 

[unmerged(1104)]

The bounding case is Oman and Abu Dhabi in my current game. Two countries with more similarities would be hard to fine, yet one is a minus one, and one is a -100. Both had negative prestige as well. So far as I can tell, the two countries are identical in culture.

When I get home, I'll check if they both have the same kind of government.

Yes I see this all the time 100 hit for one, 1 hit for the other. I only play majors (so we are talking France or Prussia declaring war) I would doubt we have same religion and their govs should be unciv.

I don't understand why France gets such a big hit against Annam/Cambodia.
I understand Madagascar - IRL - they annexed Madagascar late in game and raised many eyebrows.

 

[unmerged(11486)]

Might their be a random influence as well? That might make sense, depending on how the news of the war was released to the world...

Steele

 

[Stefanos]

Generally, it seems that declaring war on countries smaller than you is always -100 prestige. DoWing countries bigger than you is a smaller hit.

 

[unmerged(3565)]

I did a bit more experimenting tonight, and yes, the size (or at least power) of your opponent does seem to matter. Rather as one would suspect.

The other thing I'm pretty sure about now is the relationship score between you and your opponent. I have extremely good relations with Russia, and extremely bad relations with the Netherlands. Both are of similar power (Russia has a bigger army, of course, but hasn't done that well this game. The Dutch have a better game score due to prestige). Yet the cost of declaring war on Russia is -100, and the Netherlands -13.

However, if a power is sufficiently strong (i.e., the UK), the cost of declaring is still low, despite good relations. If a country is very weak, the cost of declaring is still high, despite bad relations (e.g., Madagascar, who really hate me but have an armed forces mostly consisting of throwing lemurs at my passing battleships). In other words, relations colour things, but not as much as relative power.

The one I saw this time that really has me going "Huh?" is Mexico. I'm Japan. My nearest holding is Hawaii. I've never even sent a single diplomat to Mexico, and I've paid no more attention to them than watching my potential nemesis the USA beat the ^%$# out of them (as usual).

Yet declaring war on them would be a -1. Again, I say "Huh?"

 

[unmerged(24705)]

Any country that has prestige less then -100 seems to only cost 1 prestige to declare war against. Also, I think countries that are close to your own in Great Power Rank cost less.

 

[unmerged(11486)]

Madagascar, who really hate me but have an armed forces mostly consisting of throwing lemurs at my passing battleships

Well put.

Hopefully we will ponder about this for a while, and eventually someone will either hack the exe to find out the code for it, or one of the developers will come out and say it.

Steele

 

[Darkrenown]

If the target has -100 prestiege or less then it costs 1 prestiege to attack them.
If the target is close to or higher than your power level it will cost less than 100 prestiege to attack them.
If the target is far weaker than you, but has greater than -100 prestiege it will cost 100 prestiege to attack them.
In 1.02 the hit for breaking a peace treaty is 100 prestiege.