Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 Announced by Paradox Interactive and Hardsuit Labs

Davisx3m

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Lord_Eol

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Also, Gehenna was written out of Canon for 5th Edition.

Which I want to say the actual long term majority of players don't care about; seriously who really cares about anything after Revised Edition or that garbage known as Chronicles. It's like post-FASA Shadowrun or BT, nobody cares about the system or the fluff. Also one of the joys of the WW storyteller system was it was always more about the story than the actual mechanics unlike let's any TSR or Palladium game (and their copycats). I'm less tied to the exact system mechanics here than do the faithfully recreate the environment and abilities, i.e. I don't really care the underlying game code for how they implement dominate as long as in effect I can dominate people to the extend the fluff allows for.

Also for all the people on this thread screaming "But White Wolf folk are on board!!!", that is a broad statement. The real question is how many of the core designers which made WOD, and in particular, VTM (i.e. it's less important if the guy who wrote Changeling is on board), what we all love from the 90's are in on this project AND given real creative authority? I'm pretty indifferent that the admin assistant for the network stack coder hired by CCP to work at White Wolf on WOD Online still remains on staff after WW was sold to to Paradox.

What I (and I wager most people) want is VTMB2 (complete with all the major mods like Camerella mod, Sabbot mod, Bloodlines mod) with updated graphics, a larger and more expansive open world (it's 2019, processing has come a long way), etc with around 120 hours of gameplay and storylines / missions which change on replay based on choices made as well as a few unique options / quests based on particular clans, not just the Malkavians this time.
 

Lord Hoosier

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To be honest, I really do not care.
 

Lord Hoosier

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You posting here says otherwise to me.
I'm only really interested in the grand strategy titles and C:S. This game seems really edgy, like Dracula meets the Matrix. I am just happy that this is not taking up dev time with PDS and Colossal Order. I'm happy all of you are happy and excited, but I think PDX should focus on sandbox style strategy and management titles. I am concerned that PDX is becoming another Ubisoft or THQ Nordic as it grows so rapidly.
 

Marc_Hicks

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I'm only really interested in the grand strategy titles and C:S. This game seems really edgy, like Dracula meets the Matrix. I am just happy that this is not taking up dev time with PDS and Colossal Order. I'm happy all of you are happy and excited, but I think PDX should focus on sandbox style strategy and management titles. I am concerned that PDX is becoming another Ubisoft or THQ Nordic as it grows so rapidly.

Plenty of forums out there for those games, here on Paradox. So why are you here? That would be like me going onto a Fortnight forum to say how disinterested I am in that game......what'd be the point?
 
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Jastebro

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I'm only really interested in the grand strategy titles and C:S. This game seems really edgy, like Dracula meets the Matrix. I am just happy that this is not taking up dev time with PDS and Colossal Order. I'm happy all of you are happy and excited, but I think PDX should focus on sandbox style strategy and management titles. I am concerned that PDX is becoming another Ubisoft or THQ Nordic as it grows so rapidly.

Paradox is both a developer & a publisher.
Some games are made by PDX themselves, some gets made by other studios & sold under PDX flag.
Bloodlines 2 is the latter. It's not diverting resources from any internal grand strategy development.
 

Thure

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> Bloodlines 2 is the latter.

Which is why it will fail. I can't think of a single game where Paradox was the publisher, not a developer, that was worth a damn.

Cities: Skylines was absolutelly a fail and nobody loves that game.... oh wait. Mount and Blade was quiet popular too...
 

Lord_Eol

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> Cities: Skylines was absolutelly a fail and nobody loves that game.... oh wait. Mount and Blade was quiet popular too...

Black swans don't make the rule nor change the expectations. For every Cities: Skylines you have fifty Starvoids. History has shown PDI, like Calypso, has no expectations of equivalent quality control, support, sustainability, standards, etc included in whatever agreement it enters into with non-PD developers. What we (consumers) except is PDI to be selective in the games they distribute and hold them to the same internal standards which gave them their name; they have shown consistently they won't'. We taking bets right now if Bloodline2 will be Stravoid or Cities: Skylines?
 
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Jastebro

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> Cities: Skylines was absolutelly a fail and nobody loves that game.... oh wait. Mount and Blade was quiet popular too...

Black swans don't make the rule nor change the expectations. For every Cities: Skylines you have fifty Starvoids.
Here's a list of Paradox top selling games.

Of the top ten (all with more than 1 million units sold), Paradox has developed 6 by themselves.
Of their top 3 best sold, they've developed one, and it is indeed in the third place.
 

Lord_Eol

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Sales on a particular game is an irrelevant metric when it comes to "what are the chances the next game will be worth by money" hence the concept of black swans. Take a look at a list of ALL games Paradox has ever published, not developed, and get back to me.

What we know from VTMB2 so far is it's a console action adventure game that wasn't even developed by Paradox with development towards the male young adult crowd with a focus on combos and cut scenes set in the CofD world instead of the cWOD that happened to retain a person or to from the WWS CCP to PDI acquisition for marketing purposes. Like I said, maybe the same will sell, maybe it won't. My guess based on the fluff alone, like GW games, it will end up falling in the Surviving Mars camp, i.e. make a quick buck and die, two years later nobody care, support not exist, and forgotten about with more people still playing the original VTMB.
 

falconlord

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What we know from VTMB2 so far is it's a console action adventure game that wasn't even developed by Paradox with development towards the male young adult crowd with a focus on combos and cut scenes set in the CofD world instead of the cWOD that happened to retain a person or to from the WWS CCP to PDI acquisition for marketing purposes. Like I said, maybe the same will sell, maybe it won't. My guess based on the fluff alone, like GW games, it will end up falling in the Surviving Mars camp, i.e. make a quick buck and die, two years later nobody care, support not exist, and forgotten about with more people still playing the original VTMB.

What are you talking about? Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines 2 is set in the oWoD, not Chronicles. The clue is in the name (Vampire: The Masquerade vs Vampire: The Requiem) along with the fact that it's a direct sequel to VTMB1, which was also set in the old World of Darkness.

I don't know how much of White Wolf's original talent is involved, or if any are even left with the company, but we do know that Brian Mitsoda, the lead writer of VTMB, is the lead writer on this one. Plus Chris Avellone, the gaming world's craziest genius. Emphasis on genius.
 

Thure

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What we know from VTMB2 so far is it's a console action adventure game that wasn't even developed by Paradox with development towards the male young adult crowd with a focus on combos and cut scenes set in the CofD world instead of the cWOD that happened to retain a person or to from the WWS CCP to PDI acquisition for marketing purposes. Like I said, maybe the same will sell, maybe it won't. My guess based on the fluff alone, like GW games, it will end up falling in the Surviving Mars camp, i.e. make a quick buck and die, two years later nobody care, support not exist, and forgotten about with more people still playing the original VTMB.

Did you read ANY information? Nearly all of this is wrong. It's not an action adventure. It's an RPG with a LOT of dialogues and focus on choices. It's set in the World of Darkness (Vampire: The Masquerade) and it has the same main writter as Bloodlines 1 and even the same main compuser as Bloodlines 1. Also they have Cara Ellision on board as writter which will likely mean it's not targeted toward the male young adult crowd. Also it will likely be targeted toward the people who loved bloodlines 1 which are now 15 years older than back in the days, so not young adults anymore.
 

Marc_Hicks

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What are you talking about? Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines 2 is set in the oWoD, not Chronicles. The clue is in the name (Vampire: The Masquerade vs Vampire: The Requiem) along with the fact that it's a direct sequel to VTMB1, which was also set in the old World of Darkness.

I don't know how much of White Wolf's original talent is involved, or if any are even left with the company, but we do know that Brian Mitsoda, the lead writer of VTMB, is the lead writer on this one. Plus Chris Avellone, the gaming world's craziest genius. Emphasis on genius.

I know for a fact that Jason Carl (who narrates the wonderful LA By Nights Chronicle) was in close consultation with the studio, throughout development. He also confirmed that most of the other White Wolf people were closely involved too.
 

Marc_Hicks

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Here's a list of Paradox top selling games.

Of the top ten (all with more than 1 million units sold), Paradox has developed 6 by themselves.
Of their top 3 best sold, they've developed one, and it is indeed in the third place.

Top selling does not equate to Top Quality. The original Bloodlines sold very poorly at release, yet is considered a masterpiece. Every version of CoD sells boatloads of copies, yet is always little more than a generic looter-shooter, with massive grind & excessive monetization (being an Activision Game & all)
 

Jastebro

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Top selling does not equate to Top Quality. The original Bloodlines sold very poorly at release, yet is considered a masterpiece. Every version of CoD sells boatloads of copies, yet is always little more than a generic looter-shooter, with massive grind & excessive monetization (being an Activision Game & all)
I agree in principle, but also encourage anyone to have a look for themselves at the list I provided above & consider whether the relevant titles are good games or not.
 

Lord_Eol

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BattleTech isn't in the top 10?!?! That just confirms my original point about sales vs quality.

BT was garbage as well. Why my AC/2 doesn't do 2 damage and shoot farther than anything else in the game annoys me to the point of unplayable to include their introduction of magic to the game. You know because it's so hard to make a accurate 1-to-1 adaption with nicer graphics because well you know, God forbid people that actually enjoy the game might want to actually play it after all an AC/2 only doing 2 points is game breaking!!! GAME BREAKING!!!! People will NOT BUY THE GAME if the Jaeger mech or Charger are utterly POS's or if Hunchbacks can one shot kill your Atlas or if your pilots can't cast a spell to save themselves!!!

As for cWoD v. CofD, sorry man I'm not seeing it in the trailer. I see no goth-punk at all which was the defining artistic difference (i.e. outside rules and storyline) between cWoD and CofD. What I do see though is heavy anime/manga influence though inline with CofD's emo artistic direction. (BTW a similar problem with SRR's as well, another IP PDI holds now).

PDI has my money, I will buy VTMB2 just like I bought BT, etc but I'm not expecting much and I will be happy if it's at least playable more than two hours. And get back to me in 2034 if anybody is still playing VTMB2 and, at that point, are more people playing VTMB1 or VTMB2.
 

Thure

Chartularius Hamburgensis
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May 13, 2009
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As for cWoD v. CofD, sorry man I'm not seeing it in the trailer. I see no goth-punk at all which was the defining artistic difference (i.e. outside rules and storyline) between cWoD and CofD. What I do see though is heavy anime/manga influence though inline with CofD's emo artistic direction. (BTW a similar problem with SRR's as well, another IP PDI holds now).

PDI has my money, I will buy VTMB2 just like I bought BT, etc but I'm not expecting much and I will be happy if it's at least playable more than two hours. And get back to me in 2034 if anybody is still playing VTMB2 and, at that point, are more people playing VTMB1 or VTMB2.

What is Anime/Manga about the trailer? I saw nothing. Also you have to remember it's set during the modern times, so the game is set in 2020/2019. Of course the style is not the same as in Bloodlines 1 since a lot has changed during this 15 years. The most we saw were Ventrue mostly likely and they wouldn't look very Goth in a modern setting. We just don#t saw enough to judge this.
Also it won't be just two hours. The devs already confirmed the game has more text and dialogue than Bloodlines 1. Read the interviews. They talk a LOT about stuff like this in them. They want to have a lot of dialogue choices and stuff like this. They are focused on dialogues. Also it's confirmed to be an action RPG, not an action adventure. They have the same WRITTER as Bloodlines 1 in addition to Chris Avellone (Fallout New Vegas, Pillars of Eternity etc etc) as additional writter. And they make sure it's not just focused on a male audience otherwise they wouldn't have recruted Cara Ellisone as additional writter. She loved Bloodlines 1. ALso the got the same compuser back. So the team already is filled with stuff who loved the first game and/or worked on the first game. You really should inform yourself before you judge by a single teaser trailer.