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Wraith11B

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They could do okay in good weather, and had extremely long range artillery on their ships, but the lack of investment in radar rendered their advantage moot.
 

El Pip

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I see the Army's research into spaced armour for the tin-cans it calls tanks is going as well as we all expected.

The Leader of the Nationalist unit was Alexander von Falkenhausen - a German volunteer - and a Superior Leader at that.

Germany, once again, approached Japan and asked it to join the ‘Axis’.
One must admire the audacity of the Germans in asking Japan to join the Axis while at the same time having a military mission in China supplying arms and leadership to the very forces Japan is fighting.

That is the kind of strategic genius I thought was limited to our own army.

Nobody was impressed.
A phrase best used to describe the IJA's performance in the war thus far.
 

El Pip

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They could do okay in good weather, and had extremely long range artillery on their ships, but the lack of investment in radar rendered their advantage moot.
The guns were long ranged, but the accuracy was awful because the shells were unreliable. No amount of radar is going to fix that. Nor the lack of fuel, awful naval staff and officers, low morale, weird torpedo doctrine, aversion to night fighting, etc etc.

Fundamentally it's the Tirpitz Issue (the battleship and the Admiral, they both had the same problem) - Italy didn't have the money to build the fleet it required and anything less than that was probably a waste of resources that could have been better used elsewhere.
 

nuclearslurpee

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Fundamentally it's the Tirpitz Issue (the battleship and the Admiral, they both had the same problem) - Italy didn't have the money to build the fleet it required and anything less than that was probably a waste of resources that could have been better used elsewhere.
Italy was perhaps a bit railroaded since, y'know, they couldn't just not build a navy. Unlike Germany, they had way too much coastline to fortify, numerous outlying islands and colonies to protect, and like Germany they had to fight the UK if they wanted to get anywhere. The problem Italy had was, having determined the need to build a navy, they built completely the wrong navy including the lack of reliable naval air power/cover to operate against British CAGs, even in a fleet-in-being role (see: Taranto). With of course all of the aforementioned issues as well plus the rather large one of having Il Douche in charge over it all.
 

Casko

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Italy was perhaps a bit railroaded since, y'know, they couldn't just not build a navy. Unlike Germany, they had way too much coastline to fortify, numerous outlying islands and colonies to protect, and like Germany they had to fight the UK if they wanted to get anywhere. The problem Italy had was, having determined the need to build a navy, they built completely the wrong navy including the lack of reliable naval air power/cover to operate against British CAGs, even in a fleet-in-being role (see: Taranto). With of course all of the aforementioned issues as well plus the rather large one of having Il Douche in charge over it all.
Also it further doesn't help. That Italy's naval staff and admiralty was stuck in a previous generation, and most of the personal behind doctrine and development were what'd we call in game "old guard", which I'd say, is not Mussolini's fault (and his fault on this matter is that he did not purge the Italian navy staff, but that's neither here nor there), and even if Italy stayed under its republican rule, or some other strongman unified Italy under their grip, they'd still have multitude of naval issues.

And like with Japan, the different services did not like to work together, in this case it being the airforce and the navy, which historically worked great for the British, as you pointed out.
 

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That division (37.) is not well balanced, where is its artillery? its engineers? its horses?
 

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Too right - we don't want to tie ourselves to any bloody Europeans.
 

serutan

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Does anyone know when the Soviets sent Chuikov to China? It would be amusing if he showed up as a Nationalist commander...
 
Last edited:

Eurasia

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Does anyone know when the Soviets sent Chuikov to China? It would be amusing if he showed up as a Nationalist commander...
From what I understand he was sent to China in 1940. This conflict will be over well before then. I hope.
 

nuclearslurpee

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From what I understand he was sent to China in 1940. This conflict will be over well before then. I hope.
Not that I mean to complain, but just once I'd like to see a Japan AAR where the player actually gets deadlocked in China and has to fight the Allies and/or Soviets while trying to hold the Chinese front and slowly push further inland.

Of course, that would require the game to be made by someone better at balance and realism than Paradox, so... :rolleyes:
 

serutan

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Not that I mean to complain, but just once I'd like to see a Japan AAR where the player actually gets deadlocked in China and has to fight the Allies and/or Soviets while trying to hold the Chinese front and slowly push further inland.

Of course, that would require the game to be made by someone better at balance and realism than Paradox, so... :rolleyes:
Agree about balance, but Paradox has to tread very carefully with the reaslism - I think most people who buy these games are much more interested in achieving ahistoric outcomes than they are realism.
 

El Pip

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Agree about balance, but Paradox has to tread very carefully with the reaslism - I think most people who buy these games are much more interested in achieving ahistoric outcomes than they are realism.
Absolutely. Realism would require the German player to be obsessed with allocating steel around the economy, deciding whether to use precious tungsten in AP ammo or machine tools and other such things. Which I would love and might actually make me play as Germany, but I am aware this is a minority view point.

As I understand Paradox's thinking in HOI3 the general idea was to have Japan mop up China fairly easily, to allow the AI to focus on the Pacific War (because the AI cannot handle fighting in China and the Pacific, and the Pacific War is more important to most of the player base). So if the AI is supposed to be able to win, a player who doesn't handicap themselves will find it a cakewalk. Even if they do have to use the inferior, foolish, traitors of the IJA. ;)
 

nuclearslurpee

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Absolutely. Realism would require the German player to be obsessed with allocating steel around the economy, deciding whether to use precious tungsten in AP ammo or machine tools and other such things. Which I would love and might actually make me play as Germany, but I am aware this is a minority view point.
I think BICE actually has something like that now with a new strategic resource mechanic they added fairly recently. Of course, then you'd have to play BICE. :p

As I understand Paradox's thinking in HOI3 the general idea was to have Japan mop up China fairly easily, to allow the AI to focus on the Pacific War (because the AI cannot handle fighting in China and the Pacific, and the Pacific War is more important to most of the player base). So if the AI is supposed to be able to win, a player who doesn't handicap themselves will find it a cakewalk. Even if they do have to use the inferior, foolish, traitors of the IJA.
I actually really do like the direction Paradox took in TFH, giving Japan the war goal to claim the regions they historically "controlled" (bit of a strong term, that) which leaves China alive and the Japan AI able to go off and bomb an island somewhere. Of course, Paradox then promptly Paradox'd it by not adding a decision or event for China to join the Allies and re-start the war, which while far from historically accurate would be a crude but effective way to simulate the full CBI theater for the Allied majors after '41.

Worth noting that with how bad the AI is, no mod yet has been able to crack the Japan-China theater yet as far as I know. BICE of course relies on event OOBs to represent scripted invasions in the Pacific as in many theaters, HPP has found a decent balance in China but cannot do anything about the Pacific yet (though a cease fire-by-event could be the missing piece), and I think at least one modder (perhaps the Downfall mode did this? I can't recall) has tried splitting the Japanese Empire into home islands + Kwantung and I don't know how well that ended up working.

Anyways, it's not just Paradox that can't come to grips with it, although it is Paradox's AI that cocks it all up in the first place.
 

roverS3

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The IJA, in it's usual unimpressive manner, is taking it's sweet time taking over China. They even managed to let the Communist take nominally Japanese-controlled ground. The naval Landings seem to have drawn Nationalist troops closer to the coast, so now the IJA can swoop in from the East and pretend they did it all...
I'm also questioning why the landing in Qingdao hasn't been followed up with at least another Division to assert Japanese control over the entire Shandong Peninsula. There aren't many Chinese forces in the way, and Weihai looks to be ripe for the taking.

The focus of this campaign is all wrong. The fight with the Communists is just a distraction from what really matters, the protection of our trade routes, and the acquisition of essential resources. The Communists caved out a barren mountainous territory which will be hell to police once we take control of it, and they don't have a coast line. Why are we even conquering those lands. I said it before I'll say it again. Let's just get the big coastal cities, Naval bases, and the resource-rich areas, and make a deal so we can concentrate on getting our own oil and rare materials from places like the Dutch East Indies.

As this world gets ever more dangerous it's not about how much land we control, or how many people live in our empire, it's about securing a reliable supply of resources for our Industry so we can build and fuel the ships and weapons we need to secure our continued prosperity.

I also couldn't help but notice that additional Bomber wings were ordered for the IJAAF, but not for the IJNAF, another slight in the face of the IJN. Utsunimiya can pretend all he wants, but he's an Army man through and through. This becomes clearer and clearer with every decision he makes. He cites the 'good' performance of Army bombers as a reason to order more, but by that logic, he should also be ordering more bombers for the navy, as our bombers in the Shanghai area have done very well.

Where are the Fast Battleships that can keep up with the Carriers? Where are the extra Navy bombers dedicated to supporting the long overdue SNLF? What about reserve aeroplanes for the Carriers? I mean if we're building Carriers, we better make sure we can keep them stocked up with suitable aeroplanes.

Why are we building Air Bases for a future war with the Soviets? Why would we even go to war with the Soviets? The resources we need aren't to be found in the Soviet Far East. The Red Navy is no real threat, so it doesn't really matter that they have Vladivostok. We're not building Battleships for a future war with the British, are we? Why not? It takes way longer to build a Battleship than to build an Air Base.

I'm quite disappointed, no matter how hard we work to propose a coherent Naval strategy, the leadership keeps prioritising the Army, neglecting essential naval development, and sinking resources into pointless campaigns in the Chinese interior, and even into hypothetical future campaigns into the barren Siberian wasteland.

Captain RobaS3,
Disgusted at the gradual IJA take-over of resources and foreign policy. Afraid for the long term survival of the great Japanese Empire.
 

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On the China - Japan unbalance issue, I too have harped on that as a gripe in the past myself. It’s worse if the Japan player is human and the US AI plays possum in the Pacific. If I do play a game eventually as a Japan (whether for an AAR or just ‘privately’) I’d probably look to ‘jury-mod’ things by experimenting with boosting China’s units (quantity or quality), tech, leadership, IC, etc and keying in some tagged ‘events’ based on historical or plausible situations. As well as setting Japan to an appropriate difficulty level and forcing quite a bit of AI use. But really, if the US just refuses to fight hard in the Pacific, Japan will run riot anyway, I would think.

An interesting experiment would be to ‘do a @markkur’ (I still miss him :( ) and maybe alternate for set periods between playing Japan and the US. The best game of course would be for a bunch of us to play MP, running all the ‘major powers’, including China. Played a game of the old SPI board game Global War like that once, about 40 years ago. It was fantastic fun - done ahistorically. Some really interesting outcomes. My favourite being a massive campaign fought in the middle of the US between me (Japan) and the Germans. I had Allied with the US, the Germans had allied with the UK to invade through Canada. When the US was collapsing, I grabbed all the west coast and fortified along the Rockies. There was a truce with Germany and I built a lot of armour. Eventually duked it out with the Germans in the heartland and ended up winning, as they were still fighting in Russia too.

We could perhaps do something similar if we tried (but probably historical rather than too free range?), though I’ve never played MP in HOI3, so don’t know what it’s like or how good it is. @Wraith11B, any hints? Also, sorry for this hijack @Eurasia, can shift to another thread if you like. :oops:
 
Last edited:

Wraith11B

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I'm just getting into the time period where everyone is actually getting into combat with one another--and playing against myself takes a few logic checks on myself. After sorting out the mess that was the Soviets, the United States and the British, as well as getting all of the three alliance systems' minors "on side" I believe the Commonwealth slang would be (On a serious note, no minor should have transports. I don't need the Canadians trying for a naval invasion of Denmark from the Balts... literally right next to the entire Kriegsmarine).

That said, the Japanese are a bit OP: they have a massive army already, over 2k available manpower, and four corps worth of SNLF and a massive sealift capability. Of course, they have no modern battleships, and it's mid-1944 in MTL.
 

nuclearslurpee

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An interesting experiment would be to ‘do a @markkur’ (I still miss him :( ) and maybe alternate for set periods between playing Japan and the US. The best game of course would be for a bunch of us to play MP, running all the ‘major powers’, including China. Played a game of the old SPI board game Global War like that once, about 40 years ago. It was fantastic fun - done ahistorically. Some really interesting outcomes. My favourite being a massive campaign fought in the middle of the US between me (Japan) and the Germans. I had Allied with the US, the Germans had allied with the UK to invade through Canada. When the US was collapsing, I grabbed all the west coast and fortified along the Rockies. There was a truce with Germany and I built a lot of armour. Eventually duked it out with the Germans in the heartland and ended up winning, as they were still fighting in Russia too.

We could perhaps do something similar if we tried (but probably historical rather than too free range?), though I’ve never played MP in HOI3, so don’t know what it’s like or how good it is. @Wraith11B, any hints? Also, sorry for this hijack @Eurasia, can shift to another thread if you like.
I'd certainly be up for a HoI3 MP game between veteran members of the AAR boards. I imagine scheduling would be a pain (the optimal time for this would have been a month or so ago, to maximize the benefit from global quarantine and all!), but there's certainly enough regulars on these boards to fill out a roster (with alternates even, potentially) and in fact maybe we have a few too many people since the Allied side can get a tad boring post-Fall of France with only Britain really in the fight as a major.

Of course, the most pressing difficulty here would be the inevitable slowdown in other AARs on this forum! :eek:
 
Chapter Fifty-Three: Operation "Peek-A-Boo" - 2.9.1937 To 8.9.1937

Eurasia

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Utsunimiya's War
(HoI3 TFH - Interactive Japan AAR)
Chapter Fifty-Three: Operation "Peek-A-Boo" - 2.9.1937 To 8.9.1937



The Land War​

As the Imperial Japanese Army entered the tenth week of the conflict with the Republic it was engaged in the Battle of Xinjiang. And both the HQs for 'Manchukuo' Operations and the Mongol Army were complaining about a lack of troops. Of course the 19. Hohei Shidan complained about a lack of supplies.

But 'China' Operations seemed to be doing well. It neither complained about a lack of troops or supplies. At least not in public.


At midnight of the 2nd of September the HQ of 'China' Operation was given another objective to take. The Province of Zhengzhou was a major urban center RIGHT in the path of the advance. Taking it would be a relatively large blow to the Republic's morale. If the Army could take it, and the Province of Jinan with its airbases, this would be a giant step towards final victory.


By midnight on the 3rd the Army won the Battle of Xinjiang against the Communists. The Army lost 66 men while the enemy lost 393 men.

The next battle started more than 24 hours later on the morning of the 4th of September. A Communist militia unit launched an attack on the Japanese Cavalry in Shilou. No doubt they wished to take it back before their Capital was threatened. And failed. The Communists lost 16 men in their vanguard while the Imperial Army lost nobody.


The next battle was when the Japanese attacked the Province of Huantai of the afternoon of the 6th. It was a Japanese Infantry Division against a Nationalist Infantry Division. The Japanese had superior numbers AND Leadership while the defenders were dug in. Amazingly the Chinese were also well organized. The Nationalist unit, the 22. Bubing Shi, looked like they could be fresh and untested.

By the 8th the 26. Hohei Shidan had joined in the Battle of Huantai as a reserve unit. But there were signs that the Nationalist defenders were becoming disorganized. Mostly from attacked from Japanese Bombers (See Air War).

By the end of the tenth week the Imperial Army was threatening the Communist Capital but that was about it. They claimed only two victories at the cost of 66 men in the Land Combat. The Communists lost 409 men in the Land Combat.


No major changes or improvements had happened to the rest of the front. But this 'slow-down' had been foreseen and the Imperial General Headquarters had plans on how to deal with it (See Navy War).



The Air War​

The Air War seemed to be slowing down also. The Army's Air Bombing Groups didn't return to the sky till just after midnight on the 7th. One of them started bombing the Nationalist defenders in Huantai. Of course the Chinese Fighters pounced on the Air Group. But failed to stop the attack on their comrades. In fact they were beaten off so badly that, once again, the Air Group claimed a 'victory'.

By the second bombing run both Air Bombing Groups had joined together in the bombing run on Huantai. In the end there was a total of eight bombing runs on the province which killed 596 Nationalist soldiers.

Late on the 7th the Chinese "Russian" Bombers took to the skies. But it is unknown where they were heading and what their target was as one of the Japanese Fighter Groups engaged them and they were forced to retreat from Japanese airspace. And so another 'victory' was claimed.

So the Army Air Force claimed two victories and kept the Nationalist Air Force out of the skies for the week.



The Navy War​

The Imperial Japanese Navy on the other hand didn't know the meaning of 'slow-down'.

The Tactical Bombers were continuing to bomb the Province of Wuxi. They hit it a total of fourteen times and killed 1,243 Nationalist militia. On their fifteen attack they were recalled to the airfields as they had received new orders directly from IGH.

Major General Shimoyama was somewhat surprised at being called back in the middle of a mission. What a waste of fuel! But once his knew his target, and the reason for the change in target, he was pacified.

Shortly before lunch, on the 6th of September, the Nationalist militia in the Province of Ningbo had their peaceful morning broken with the roar of bomber engines and the whistle of dropping bombs. They had become the new target of the Navy's Tactical Bombers. They did not have any protection against the bombs but some trenches and their horribly cheap helmets. The bombers attacked the province a total of six times and killed 295 Nationalist militia. And why were they here?

The Naval Operation "Peek-A-Boo" was meant to be a information gathering mission in force. Major General Kawabe, stationed in Hiroshima with the 9th CAG, when he received his orders. He first moved his Wings to rebase in Gaoxiong, Taiwan.


Once there he, after some time to rest, launched a Port Strike on the Province of Xiamen on the morning of the 3rd. The Port was empty of ships or defenders.

Then, on the morning of the 4th, his Wings hit the Province of Fuzhou with a Port Strike. There were no ships nor were there any defenders.

On the morning of the 5th his Wings launched a Port Strike on the Province of Ningbo. The port was empty of ships but the pilots reported two brigades of enemy militia. The Navy’s Tactical Bombers were called in to deal with them.

This was all that was needed and shortly afterwards he, and his planes, were ordered back to rebase in Hiroshima. They arrived at their old base on the 5th just in time to have lunch.

Now, with this information, the Navy would offer the Advisers another plan to vote on. A plan that could help end the war and bring the Imperial Japanese Navy glory. Well, more glory.



Misc. Events​

The tenth week started out with some news from the Japanese holdings among the Pacific islands. The Japanese garrisons on the islands of Iwo Jima, Marcus, Satawan, and Ponape reported the completion of air-aircraft gun positions.


Anti-aircraft gun positions were also finished on the Island of Saishu.

As this was happening the Minister of Armaments signed a agreement with Siam to import metal. It was a tiny deal but it was more designed to improve relationships with the tiny nation than anything else.

The nations of the world were wheeling and dealing on their own. Nationalist China was trying to find anybody who would trade with it while Germany was trying to improve their relationship with both the Russians AND the people of Turkey.

The Head of Intelligence announced at the end of the tenth week that the US had captured three of our agents, Communist China had captured one of our agents, Nationalist China had captured two of our agents, and Canada had captured one of our agents. It looks like Canadian intelligence had finally noticed the Japanese spies within their Asian communities.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​
Author's Notes:

OOC: Well, you guys were complaining this was too easy. It looks like the Japanese are having problems in China and YOU will be picking the next plan to pull us out of the mess. Be careful for what you wish for....
 

stnylan

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More submarines :)
 

Surt

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More subs and invade all the ports in south China to cut off any trade. A garrison of one divisions of useless army divisions should be enough.