Utopia: should the science nexus be unlocked by the Tech Ascendancy perk?

[Hapchazzard]

The fact that the science nexus is part of the "galactic wonders" ascendancy perk rather than "technological ascendancy" actually sticks out as kind of odd to me. Is this because of balance reasons? I mean, right now basically everyone will pick up the "galactic wonders" perk ASAP because it unlocks 3 out of the 4 megastructures. Moving the science nexus from galactic wonders to technological ascendancy would make one perk less "must-have" than it is currently, and make the second one far more alluring than it is right now(while +10% research speed[and I know, NUMBERS NOT FINAL] is nice, it doesn't really feel that powerful).

What do you think?

EDIT: Since a lot of people appear to be misunderstanding or aren't completely up to date when it comes to ascension perks, a clarification:

Currently, there is an ascension perk called "Technological ascendancy"(which is NOT related to the synth/mind-uploading ascension path) which, based on the latest stream, gives +X%(currently X=10) research speed. There is also another ascendancy perk called "Galactic wonders" which enables you to build 3 megastructures, the Dyson sphere, the sentry array and the science nexus - we're focusing on the last one. IMO it would be much more appropriate for the science nexus to be a part of the "Technological ascendancy perk". Hopefully that clears some of the confusion up.

 

[Hapchazzard]

The Synthetics Ascension is specifically about advances in cybernetics, AI, and robotics technology allowing your civilization to mass-upload themselves.

There's not really a connection.

I'm not referring to that, though. There's an ascension perk called "technological ascension" that gives you +10% research speed and is unrelated to the synth/mind-uploading ascendancy path(which is called "Synthetic evolution" or something similar)

 

[my unique name]

I think it will be a waste if it were locked behind technology ascendancy. I mean all the science nexus is a really large research station. I don't see why that would need to be locked behind the technology ascendancy tree.

 

[Hapchazzard]

I think it will be a waste if it were locked behind technology ascendancy. I mean all the science nexus is a really large research station. I don't see why that would need to be locked behind the technology ascendancy tree.

Well, it is already locked behind "Galactic wonders", another ascension perk. And calling the science nexus "a really large space station" probably doesn't do it justice - I mean, technically a Dyson sphere is also just an oversized energy mining station.

 

[my unique name]

Well, it is already locked behind "Galactic wonders", another ascension perk. And calling the science nexus "a really large space station" probably doesn't do it justice - I mean, technically a Dyson sphere is also just an oversized energy mining station.

I don't see any reason why any empire that wanted to improve its science output couldn't come up with the idea of building a large space station to houses and support a bunch of scientists. I mean it's really not a revolutionary idea that would need anything more then the engineering capability to build a structure of that size.

 

[DukeLeto42]

I don't see any reason why any empire that wanted to improve its science output couldn't come up with the idea of building a large space station to houses and support a bunch of scientists. I mean it's really not a revolutionary idea that would need anything more then the engineering capability to build a structure of that size.

The ascension perk is effectively choosing to dedicate your society to the ability to engage in megastructure construction -- all these are much more than simple large space stations.

 

[my unique name]

The ascension perk is effectively choosing to dedicate your society to the ability to engage in megastructure construction -- all these are much more than simple large space stations.

Im saying keeping the science nexus under the megastructure perk is were it should stay. I agree with you that these
megastructure are more than simple large space station. What I was referring to was that the idea and purpose of a science nexus shouldn't require it to be locked behind the technology ascension perk.

 

[Hapchazzard]

Im saying keeping the science nexus under the megastructure perk is were it should stay. I agree with you that these
megastructure are more than simple large space station. What I was referring to was that the idea and purpose of a science nexus shouldn't require it to be locked behind the technology ascension perk.

The problem is that the megastructure perk is currently (IMO) so comically good that there's literally no reason to not take it ASAP. Even if you want to drastically boost your science output, picking "galactic wonders" is probably(we don't know the numbers yet) a vastly superior choice to "technological ascendancy"(unless the latter is MASSIVELY buffed). Just stack 2-3 science nexuses at most and you've probably overtaken any +X% bonus you've gotten from the "tech ascendancy" perk. Not only that, but the megastructure perk also gives you 2 additional megastructures with their own massive bonuses.

If you want to have a truly massive edge in terms of technology, "techological ascendancy" would sound like the most logical choice, right? Because right now, it doesn't look like it.

Obviously, this is all just (somewhat educated) speculation, and someone who knows better should correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[my unique name]

The problem is that the megastructure perk is currently (IMO) so comically good that there's literally no reason to not take it ASAP. Even if you want to drastically boost your science output, picking "galactic wonders" is probably(we don't know the numbers yet) a vastly superior choice to "technological ascendancy"(unless the latter is MASSIVELY buffed). Just stack 2-3 science nexuses at most and you've probably overtaken any +X% bonus you've gotten from the "tech ascendancy" perk. Not only that, but the megastructure perk also gives you 2 additional megastructures with their own massive bonuses.

If you want to have a truly massive edge in terms of technology, "techological ascendancy" would sound like the most logical choice, right? Because right now, it doesn't look like it.

Obviously, this is all just (somewhat educated) speculation, and someone who knows better should correct me if I'm wrong.

You also have to remember that megastructures will be a massive investment in resources and time. I mean if you are building 2 or 3 science nexus you ether have a super massive empire were resources are not a concern or your pushing hard for a tech advantage and probably have the technology ascendancy perk.

 

[Ramiel]

What you all seem to be forgetting is that Galactic Wonders requires both a previous Ascendency Perk AND at least four unlocked Ascendency Perk slots. Judging by how it's been discussed, and how much tradition Wiz spent to unlock it, it sounds like a mid-late game feature at the earliest. Technological Ascendency on the other hand has no such restrictions and can be taken immediately as your first choice. There are several Ascendency Perks we've seen that give strong benefits like Technological Ascendency, but are objectively inferior to the big boys like Galactic Wonders and Transcendence. But that's OK, because you can't just pick all of the latter and ignore the former, you're gonna have to choose some of the former along the way.

Also, remember all numbers are not final~

 

[DukeLeto42]

The problem is that the megastructure perk is currently (IMO) so comically good that there's literally no reason to not take it ASAP. Even if you want to drastically boost your science output, picking "galactic wonders" is probably(we don't know the numbers yet) a vastly superior choice to "technological ascendancy"(unless the latter is MASSIVELY buffed). Just stack 2-3 science nexuses at most and you've probably overtaken any +X% bonus you've gotten from the "tech ascendancy" perk. Not only that, but the megastructure perk also gives you 2 additional megastructures with their own massive bonuses.

If you want to have a truly massive edge in terms of technology, "techological ascendancy" would sound like the most logical choice, right? Because right now, it doesn't look like it.

Obviously, this is all just (somewhat educated) speculation, and someone who knows better should correct me if I'm wrong.

As it is, I believe that the boost to science is only the start of the impacts of the ascendancy perk -- like psionic ascendance, it likely has an entire later development to what impacts it has, while galactic wonders instead requires time and resources to gain these advantages.