Usurping a ruler's highest title. What happens to his vassals one rank below?

[hellotimebomb_9]

I'm King of Ireland, England, and Wales. My chancellor has just fabricated a claim on the Duchy of Albany in Scotland, and I'm trying to decide if I want to use it.

If I capture the duchy, I will control more than 50% of the de jure counties of Scotland. If I then usurp the Kingdom of Scotland, the former King of Scotland will become the Duke of Galloway. What will happen to the other Dukes in Scotland? Will they become independent? Or will they become my vassals?

Thanks.

 

[dragoon9105]

All the Duke level vassals of the King of Scotland will become Independent, Reason being he isn't a King anymore and thus has no Right to Rule over them anymore. If your Scottish (Or of Celtic Culture) you can ask them to Swear Fealty to you, Most will probably turn you down leaving you two options.

Form Britannia, Assuming your Celtic being two tiers above a duke means they will lose the "Small difference in Rank" modifier and be more willing to join you.
Or Just Conquer them all with De Jure Claims, You could probably declare war on all of the remaining dukes at once and have some fun with it and save some time
(It makes Taking Any Kingdom loads more fun then slowly crushing them all one by one)

 

[tuareg109]

They'll become independent. I know from personal experience.
Eric Dunkeld went from King of Scotland to Duke of Albany (Duke of Moray became independent), then Count of Gowrie after I usurped the Duchy (Count of Fife became independent).

 

[hellotimebomb_9]

Thanks guys. So even after I get the Duchy of Albany, I'll need to do some more conquering before I can form Britannia. Hmm...

Here's some more information about my situation. My heir is female. The King of Scotland will accept a marriage between my heir and his heir. The King of Scotland and I are of the same dynasty. So I (the player) would eventually gain control of Scotland through this marriage. My current character is 42 and has syphilis. Also, succession in England and Scotland is Agnatic, and I can't change the law in England for another 4 years. Most of my personal demesne is in England. If my character dies early, I will lose a lot. Naturally, he won't be fighting in any battles. I'm also likely going to be fighting to put my wife on the throne of Norway soon, so that my heir inherits it.

So I have two options:
(1) I can go for war and hope my current character lives long enough to change the laws. If he dies before the laws can be changed, I'll lose both Scotland, England, and most of my demesne. If he doesn't even live long enough to form Britannia, I won't even have claims on those Kingdoms. If I lose all that, it'll be quite tough to press the claim on Norway that my current character's wife will soon inherit.
(2) I can go the safe route and make the marriage. Then even if my character dies early, I'll at least get Scotland eventually.

My maximum gain in the end is about the same; it will just take a lot longer to realize it with marriage. My maximum loss is smaller with marriage.

I have to say that I am kinda hoping for things to break bad. It'd be more fun that way!

Thanks again!

 

[Westernesse]

If your female heir is landed you could always usurp it and give away the king/other titles your going to lose from gravelkind to your heir. If you think its unlikely that you'll live for 4 more years. Also, is Norway elective? Its unlikely that a female ruler with a female heir will get enough votes to put your heir on the throne after your wife.

 

[hellotimebomb_9]

I'm not losing the titles due to Gavelkind, I'm losing them because they are in an agnatic kingdom (England). Fortunately, my demesne contains a couple of counties in Ireland, which is agnatic-cognatic, so I won't lose everything on succession. If I can survive another 4 years, I'll be able to change the law in England to agnatic-cognatic and all should be fine.

Norway is agnatic-cognatic primogeniture.

My female heir is not landed. I don't think I am able to give titles to females even in agnatic-cognatic kingdoms.

Thanks for the ideas.

 

[Eldorian]

Make the marriage and hope you live long enough to change the succession law. Never fight a war for territory you can get simply by dying.