Usurp???

[Patgarret77]

Ok guys...I'm playing as Este dinasty trying to get a grip on italy...Im wrestling with marriages with duchy of toscana while Im fabricating claims on independents to slowly inch my way to claim the kingdom of italy. I took monferrato this way and I was about to take genoa too...but...a message comes that a count in savoy has just usurped the count title of genoa... Now savoy is under the holy roman empire so no way I can take it from them...
How the hell the ia managed to do that? I think I miss a rule here...that is the usurp one.

Any help?

 

[Esben_DRK]

I don't think I've seen anyone usurp a count title before, but titles where you need 50% (So Dukes, Kings & probably Emperors) of the counties can be usurped. Genoa has a ducal title as well, so maybe it was that one? That would be the only way I can make sense of it right now.
If you have a ducal title that has 5 de jure counties in it, and you only have two of the counties as vassals, then if someone can get the 3 others they can usurp the ducal title. The best way to prevent this is to make sure that either you have 51% of the de jure counties, or that at least none else has (Preventing anyone from gaining a majority will also prevent them from usurping the ducal title, though it can still be taken from you by force).

 

[Patgarret77]

Yes it seemed strange to me too...but the message was clear: county usurped...I stared at that long time...
The usurper was a claimant to the county...savoy invited him, gave him saluzzo county, then i think they moved war...took the capital...and then usurped...
Makes any sense?

 

[Patgarret77]

Any way I can lay may hands on those counties owned by holy roman empire? Claim leads to wars I cant win...

 

[DLFebin]

Well, usurpation not always means a click on the "Usurp" button. IMO, it was just a small war for the claim.

 

[spinoza013]

A County can be usurped if the title was vassal to a Liege that has just lost his last personal Desmesne title. The Liege will depose the former Vassal and assume the title. I think.

 

[semaphore]

Yes it seemed strange to me too...but the message was clear: county usurped...I stared at that long time...

The message always say usurped.

 

[unmerged(26764)]

I'm glad you posted this. There was another thread where I posted about this happening to me.

Actually, it's happened a few times. Usually it happens right after I took a county from the AI. I then grant the county to a vassal. A minute later the AI "usurps" it back from the vassal I just granted it to. I have no idea why this is happening and I think it's a bug.

 

[DLFebin]

I'm glad you posted this. There was another thread where I posted about this happening to me.

Actually, it's happened a few times. Usually it happens right after I took a county from the AI. I then grant the county to a vassal. A minute later the AI "usurps" it back from the vassal I just granted it to. I have no idea why this is happening and I think it's a bug.

You sure that they are not "usurping" it by war? After the war for the county there is always message "%winner% has usurped the title County of %county% from %loser%".

 

[unmerged(467919)]

If you want to take counties from the HRE, become thier vassal. Since italy isnt de jure crown athority shouldnt affect you even if it goes to medium. Then when you are strong enough or see lots of vassals rebelling then fight for your independence and help break up the empire.

 

[PAnZuRiEL]

I've had issues like this. I'm playing as the Kingdom of Rus, and the neighbouring Kingdom of Volga Bulgaria usurped a couple of my vassal grand principalities. Both times, I noticed that one of the vassal's vassals was conspiring to transfer the grand principality to a new ruler (I initially assumed himself and ignored the plot as harmless as the new prince would still be my vassal, but apparently it was actually the King of VB). Now for some reason, the fact that this plot exists seems to give the AI the ability to usurp the grand principality outright, despite owning none of the provinces originally -- they all just transfer suddenly to his kingdom (even though they're part of my de jure territory!!!), and he gains the grand prince title and I guess murders my vassal prince or something. There doesn't seem to be any way to stop this transferal of ownership short of arresting or assassinating the plotter before his plot comes to fruition, but of course I need to know about the plot officially (rather than knowing from having it happen in a previous save) before I can use righteous imprisonment.

What I'd really like to know is how I can use the plots of my neighbours' vassals to seize their territory outright without a conflict. If only the AI can do it, then either it's a bug or they're cheating.

 

[tnick0225]

If you want to take counties from the HRE, become thier vassal. Since italy isnt de jure crown athority shouldnt affect you even if it goes to medium. Then when you are strong enough or see lots of vassals rebelling then fight for your independence and help break up the empire.

When you play as Lombardy, and only hold a Duke title the Crown Authority laws do effect you. I was playing as the d'este and once the HRE moved to medium I could no longer declare wars on other vassals until I formed Burgundy. Then I was allowed to roll back through Italy without being harassed by HRE crown authority.

As far as the OPs issue your better off if you jump back into the HRE if your in Lombardy so its easier for you you to take the counties you need to form italy. Otherwise your looking at having to spread your realm in all sorts of weird parts of Europe, just so you have enough power to fight for each individual county in the HRE. And also if you won an independence war against the Kaiser, it won't be long before he comes for revenge.