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JodelDiplom

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My idea was to presume a sudden border between the eastern or Southerm US and USSR in 1941. Just to compare military ability and capacity. USSR started out with a lot of stuff and America had a relatively small professional military at the time.

I think the USSR would crush through at first but would eventually be beaten back. If I'm not mistaken, it would take a while for America to ramp up and the USSR had more manpower than America
That's, like, a quite silly scenario. But of course the USSR wins, they would have a far larger and more battle tested army ready to blitz across the USA before the US army could even assemble its (totally green and then still badly led) troops into anything resembling proper fighting formations. Whether the USA can stage a comeback depends on how close to the industrial heartland of the USA you put you imaginary land border. If less than 300 km from Detroit or Pittsburgh then the USA won't make a comeback because the major part of its industrial power would fall to the soviet blitz.

Besides, the USSR had less people than the USA, not more.
 

nerd

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My idea was to presume a sudden border between the eastern or Southerm US and USSR in 1941.
IF Tasmania and Monaco shared a land border...........The earthquakes would have wiped out humanity!
 
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Konair0s

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1v1 Nobody wins. Russia could not invade the U.S, and I don't see how a U.S invasion amounts to anything but a ton of dead on both sides. I think the U.S would win any naval warfare, but that wouldn't matter in Russia proper. Maybe if this was some fantasy world with different land masses naval warfare could mean the difference lol.

Or if one could attach wheels to cruisers and send them to Moscow.
 

DoomBunny

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Kovax

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But of course the USSR wins, they would have a far larger and more battle tested army ready to blitz across the USA before the US army could even assemble its (totally green and then still badly led) troops into anything resembling proper fighting formations.
That's with the assumption that the US would allow them to land that larger battle tested army on US soil, and supply it.

Quite simply, the SU couldn't reach the US with anything more than a token raiding force (which would quickly be eliminated), and the US couldn't send and supply enough force in Eurasia to take on the Soviets without massive support from its European allies. The US could probably ramp up its air war enough to do heavy damage (and suffer a lot of crews shot down behind enemy lines in return, as Germany did in England), but ultimately there's no way to "win". It's even debatable whether "nukes" would end the war without causing enough global radiation and climate issues to create a world-wide outcry against their use.
 

Konair0s

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That's with the assumption that the US would allow them to land that larger battle tested army on US soil, and supply it.

Quite simply, the SU couldn't reach the US with anything more than a token raiding force (which would quickly be eliminated), and the US couldn't send and supply enough force in Eurasia to take on the Soviets without massive support from its European allies. The US could probably ramp up its air war enough to do heavy damage (and suffer a lot of crews shot down behind enemy lines in return, as Germany did in England), but ultimately there's no way to "win". It's even debatable whether "nukes" would end the war without causing enough global radiation and climate issues to create a world-wide outcry against their use.

We are talking about a world where a super-highway was build to connect Northern America with Europa.

map2.png


That's, by the way, why Germany didn't attack USSR - it had been squished.
 
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WSnova

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If the USA shared a major land border with Russia the US wouln´t have had such a small army.

USA could afford to have a small army because neither Mexico or Canada could even think about being threatening. Thats why the USA invested more in the navy.

So if the USSR and the USA shared a border the US would be completely different in how it handles its army.

But in a no context 1v1 final destination fight in 1941 the soviets are much likely to win
 
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nuarbnellaffej

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So the OP is a little vague about this scenario, so I've got three of my own to look at.

Scenario 1. The US and USSR keep their current geography and go to war. In this case, I don't see all that much happening, perhaps fighting in Europe or Asia, but neither nation would likely ever be able to establish a beachhead of any significance, since the defending nation could always draw upon more of their forces to repel the enemy, while the attacker would be logistically constrained and never capable of matching(unless they built up forces in a neighboring country prior to the assault, though that is a bit of a stretch). This would be a draw in my book.

Scenario 2. By act of ROB(random omnipotent being) the US and USSR as they were in 1941 are magically given a land border. In this scenario, the US gets stomped, the disparity of forces is simply too great imo, the USSR would likely capture a loot of land before the Americans could build up much to stop them.

Historically the Soviets managed to rebuild practcally their entire army after Barbarossa, but that was after having several million men slog down, and wear out the Germans, the US would not have this cushion. Another factor is where the lands of the two countries come together at, if the USSR invades from the west coast, than the US actually has a good chance to build up before it's too late, from say the east coast?.. The we're screwed pure and simple.

Scenario 3. If by act of ROB, the US and USSR are given a land border and say a couple years to prepare before the war than you've basically got the eastern front 2.0. This would likely end in a draw like scenario 1, but with many, many, millions dead on both sides.

I think things would still work out better for the US than the Soviets though, on account of their much larger industrial base. A war like this would likely cause the US to produce rediculously large numbers of AFVs and planes, even compared to our timeline. These US tanks would also likely be much more formidable than the Sherman's of OTL, since they do not need to be ahipped to another continent. To me, this setup is a lot like the historical eastern front with a dramatically buffed Germany(the US), not constrained by lack of resources, like rare metals and oil, and what ever the US lacked they would have the luxury of importing thanks to the US navy.

I consider the historical Soviet production figures would be similar to this scenario since it was already balls to the wall for them, compared to the US who sat far away from any exitensial threats.
 

keynes2.0

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Everyone keeps acting like Scenario 1 is total war. What about war along the lines of "we dont like such and such policy so we will park four batlteships outside Vladivostok until you agree to another round of negotiations". I think the US would be pretty well equipped for that kind of war. The Soviets on the other hand would be pretty poorly equipped for "we dont like such and such policy so we will park four battleships outside Seattle until you agree to another round of negotiations".

This kind of war strikes me as far more likely then Total war or random act of god war.
 

Konair0s

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Everyone keeps acting like Scenario 1 is total war.

Because outside of the total war context the thread's initial premise loses all its sense.
 

Sabotage13

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It all depends on whether the Allies can get the Chronosphere ready to teleport to Moscow.

If not, then they will just be steamrolled by Mammoth tanks and Tesla coils.
 

nuarbnellaffej

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@keynes2.0 I understand where you are coming from, and a limited war is obviously the most likely to ever have happened, but I think the point of a fun thread like this is no more than "what if". We sort of already have the Cold War to look at to see how things would likely go, with proxy wars etc.

I know your battleship example was just something to make a point, but I don't think the Soviets would be all that bothered by Americans trying gunboat diplomacy on them. I also suppose that if the 1941 versions of the US and USSR tried a Cold War that the Soviets would not do nearly as well as OTL, since at this time they were kind of perhias(spelling..) on the world so they may have a harder time winning over the favor of other nations.

I really wish the OP would have put more detail into the OP.
 

Premu

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Konair0s

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nuarbnellaffej

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Wait - where has it any sense?

The best way to approach and post threads like this is to include the statement "by act of ROB"(random omnipotent being). Thereby hand waving away all issues of 'how?' So for instance, by act of ROB, what if 1917 Germany fought Baathst 1990's Iraq?

Of course that question is preposterous, but by the boardom of ROB/my god/your God/magic/etc.. it did happen, how would things unfold? It also helps as the OP to give some specifics about the question or all posters will try to guess, it tends to be a big mess then.
 

SorelusImperion

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Sep 11, 2006
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Who would win in a 1941 war between the USSR and the USA ?

Well the answer is obvious: Germany