ussr should have a `attack germany` event in 42

[Jadelith]

hi,

IIRC, hoi2 had this. if germany didn't attack the SU by 1942, SU would attack (and overrun) germans. in my 36 game, I'm the US, its 1943, and SU isn't attacking germany.

historically, SU would have attacked germany I think. given that SU isn't threatened by anything else, I think its plausible to say that they should attack germany now.

almost all german troops are in a stalemate in norway (and for some reason they are not attacking the ~15 british divisions, and they have around 60 there) the rest are manning fortress europa (about 9 divisions per shore province)

of course, it would be almost impossible to capture those provinces, so I'm not even trying

japan didn't attack me either, but thats not a biggie, as I can always attack them.

 

[unmerged(19908)]

I also noticed similar stuff. A lot of events fail to trigger if you do something ahistorical. In my German game now, I let Czech remain independent and that cut off all events thereafter for me. I had to manually attack Poland cause the Danzig or War event failed to fire. As Nat China my events went temporarily dead when I took 2 provinces from Com China in the opening fight. I had to manually DOW Japan and suck up the dysentery hit just to get the game rolling, but then the events started rolling as designed.

It seems to me that ahistorical creativity is what shuts off the war event triggers.

 

[son of liberty]

In my USA game, I am in 1945 and the Soviets still keep building and building but have not attacked Germany.

 

[Dron22]

What AI aggressivness setting did you set in game settings? Could it be that it's on "weakling"? When I play as Germany the Soviet's always attack me if my relations become very bad due to spies, and they do sometimes attack if I delay Barbarossa by too long. I always set AI to "aggressive".

 

[Spricar]

I had to manually DOW Japan and suck up the dysentery hit just to get the game rolling
.

:rofl:

 

[Mortu]

Comrades, what is this rubbish about the peace loving workers and peasants of the Soviet Union attacking Germany? Stalin was smarter than that! Plus there was plenty more attractive targets: Turkey, Iran. Intervention in China.

 

[x260bm]

It has not changed. The event is included in AoD.

 

[bpscool]

if i remember correctly this event has to do with Force comparisions I think USSR attacks only when it has 2:1 against the Germans or 3:1 I just haven't seen that happen... I'll probably run a test game as Switzerland or greece to test this out at some point.

 

[Tanaka]

Regarding the "game-play",

In my sort of hand's of game with the USA (hand's off until 43 with all historical options taken) German AI did well in both West and "Northern" Front and by Summer 41 attacked USSR. In winter the German AI advance “stalled” and picked up a small pace again in summer 42. Winter 42 the Eastern front looks more or less well for the German AI. Both Leningrad & Moscow are taken, but the Soviets (AI) in the South are near the Rumanian border (Stalingrad and Baku are very safe).​

Japan (AI) defeated China in 40 and declared war to me (USA) in summer 42...​

Regarding the talked no German DoW to USSR,

Most "respectable" strategy war games give the liberty to a post M-R pact Soviet empire to DoW on Nazi Germany in Spring 42 (fun & game balance decisions)... if no, M-R pact, make it spring 41 ​

Regarding real life, "what if" "but" & so on...

Stalin had no intention of DW to Germany in 41, 42 & even 43, although he knew (like Hitler) that a fight with Germany was in the makes. The ideal scenario for Stalin was happening in 40 and early 41. Right wing dictatorial states fighting capitalist Europe (don't forget that more or less 20 years earlier both UK and USA, if not actively fighting the reds were surely conscientiously helping the whites).
In a case of a Japanese attack to the US without an earlier historical invasion of USSR by Germany (unlikely also due to Japanese fear of a Soviet invasion of Manchuria and Korea), a close look into Japanese-Soviet diplomacy history of the late 30's until mid 40's can see the "hard game" played on the diplomatic front just to keep the status-quo in the East. So even with an Axis war against USA & UK CW, Stalin would stay “foot” until it paid well to play his hand...​

So in my opinion, with the academic idea of a no German invasion of USSR, USSR would strength itself until a possible winner started to emerge... then, jump to the throat of the loser side and make some gains. If by any chance Stalin was persuade to attack Germany (44 or 45) to “help” Western democracies, the price to pay for that in continental Europe would have been surely much higher than it was...

Obviously it is all academic, as these 2 opposite totalitarian regimes were bound to clash sooner or later due to Nazi initiative (if no attack in summer 41, Germany would have went in spring 42)... The Austrian corporal very early made it clear his opinion and real intents regarding Slavic people (among others). He had racist, political and economic (raw materials & slave labor) intents in that eastern war; the card out of the deck early on, was the UK and the impossibility of a Sealion (2 front war).

my 2 cents & cheers,

 

[Syntalynder]

Regarding real life, "what if" "but" & so on...

Stalin had no intention of DW to Germany in 41, 42 & even 43, although he knew (like Hitler) that a fight with Germany was in the makes.

Was just going to write the same - historical documents released by Russia state this exact thing.
Interesting how virtually every WW2 Strategy game has USSR triggering war in '42, but then, game designers could never have known the real truth years ago due to secrecy.

 

[Jadelith]

a lot of historians would disagree with what tanaka said I think

regardless, a WW2 without ussr-nazi war would be boring. it's next to impossible to attack germany, and germans are fine staying in their forts.. so I was suggesting this not because of historical plausibility, but because otherwise the game gets stuck in a boring stalemate.

 

[Pier]

Well, don't some historians argue that the huge amount of Soviet material so close to the border (which gave the Germans with their blitzkrieg tactics such a huge advantage in the opening stages) points to Stalin preparing to attack?

Sorry, no reference for this at this point.

 

[walrus]

I had to manually DOW Japan and suck up the dissent hit just to get the game rolling, but then the events started rolling as designed.

Fixed. Good grief man, that's not the first time I've seen you make that mistake :rofl:

 

[unmerged(150187)]

Well, don't some historians argue that the huge amount of Soviet material so close to the border (which gave the Germans with their blitzkrieg tactics such a huge advantage in the opening stages) points to Stalin preparing to attack?

After the war, some german generals, like von Rundstedt, were interviewed and say that, in the invasion of 22 June 41, they don't see anything that give some impression of a possible Soviet build-up for an attack against Germany. Because this lack of preparation, the initial German sucess was so great.

 

[Murkk]

I think someone noticed that the USSR had plans for invasion of Germany and assumed it would mean they were going to be attacked. By the same logic, Canada would have been invaded by the US since they had plans to invade up until 1950. Wargaming has been going on for long before HOI series came out

 

[son of liberty]

Well cool then.... how about an event for the US invasions of Mexico and Canada?????????:rofl:

 

[unmerged(136147)]

Regarding real life, "what if" "but" & so on...

The ideal scenario for Stalin was happening in 40 and early 41.

Wasn't the ideal scenario Stalin hoped for have been to have Germany, France and UK have WWI all over again? I'm sure the quick fall of France came as a shock.

 

[Sarmatian]

Well, don't some historians argue that the huge amount of Soviet material so close to the border (which gave the Germans with their blitzkrieg tactics such a huge advantage in the opening stages) points to Stalin preparing to attack?

Sorry, no reference for this at this point.

No. Stalin was afraid of a two front war (Germany and Japan) and was aware that the Red Army in 1941 was in no shape to fight the Heer.

The supply and material found near the border was standard stuff found in all forward supply depots. Zhukov advocated for an attack but Stalin refused. He was aware that war with Nazi Germany would come but he wouldn't start it unless he had reliable allies or until SU was prepared properly.

Wasn't the ideal scenario Stalin hoped for have been to have Germany, France and UK have WWI all over again? I'm sure the quick fall of France came as a shock.

And quick fall of Poland. Everyone expected Poland would put up a decent fight that would last several months.

 

[Dron22]

I would not want an event causing USSR to declare war on Germany in 1942, nor would I favour an event Germany launching Barbarossa in 1941. The AI seems to be better able to rationally decide who to attack and when in AOD.

 

[superflo]

1943 would be more realistic. Because Stalin said in 1941, that he didn't think the Red Army would be able to fight Germany until earliest date 1943.