Using a halberd

[swilhelm73]

So I was watching a TV show where a character was using a halberd. Supposedly she was trained in its use. In individual combat, she swung it like an extra long axe, and looked for all the world as if she was a clumsy actress swinging a big axe.

So my question here is, in individual combat, would this be normal? Or would you use it more like an extra long spear so that the length allows you to keep your opponent at bay?

 

[unmerged(9531)]

Originally posted by swilhelm73
So I was watching a TV show where a character was using a halberd. Supposedly she was trained in its use. In individual combat, she swung it like an extra long axe, and looked for all the world as if she was a clumsy actress swinging a big axe.

So my question here is, in individual combat, would this be normal? Or would you use it more like an extra long spear so that the length allows you to keep your opponent at bay?

i could only advice you to read "le jeu de la hache " (axe's game. the link sent you to an english page describing the book) : it's the first defence book written in french (14th century), depicting hallberd combat.

and you're lucky, because this book was never really studied (i mean practiced and studied in history), except by one guy in the world : my brother (no kidding). i will ask him to answer your questions and i will put his replies here.

FYI, my brother is actually student in La Sorbonne (the oldest french university, founded in 13th century) trying to have a doctorate (dunno what you call this in US) in archaeology, studying swordmanship and defences technics on middle age and renaissance.

 

[unmerged(469)]

Re: Re: Using a halberd

Originally posted by KriegHund
doctorate

Doctorate in the English language too, or PhD probably more common.

I have read accounts of Agincourt that said halbardiers there stood in the second ranks of the English battles, reached over the first rank and hooked French knights. Once they had fallen over it was easy for the first rank, armed with sword or mace or whatever, to whack them.

 

[swilhelm73]

I'll be looking forward to that...thanks for your help!

I read through the link your provided, but they only really discuss non-armored halberd fighting in one section, and it is rather difficult to tell if this should be considered normal use or not...or honestly exactly what is being expressed;

Olivier frequently mentions the use of the hammer-head (maillet or mail); and, much less often, to strokes with the curved fluke (bec de faucon); while he also speaks ambiguously of the head of the axe (la teste). References to thrusts with the top spike (dague dessus or point de dessus) are common, though less so than thrusts, blows or parries with the butt-end of the axe (bout d'embas, queue, dague d'embas, dague dessoubz, and point d'embas); and there is one enigmatic allusion to the mail de la dague which I cannot understand.

I think to this is focused on halberd with a mallet head, as opposed to an axe head...but it is a good start!

 

[unmerged(9531)]

here is my brother's answer (he's better in english than me ):

what do you call "an extra long axe"? and how would you describe the use of a spear? according to the existing medieval or renaissance treatises we know, the use of each of these weapons was quite different from what the common audience generally expect.

in individual combat, a halberd can be used in many, many ways. it will generally speaking depend on the weapon/tactics your opponent use. sometimes, 'keeping the opponent at bay' is just not enough - the opponent could close in, and then, well, you're f**ked. there's no point, IMO, in keeping him at bay; kill him outright would be a better option...

every part of the halberd is used : the axe-blade, the spike, the haft, the butt....blows delivered with the axe have, of course, tremendous power, and clearly could do much damage....

I, personally, would use a halberd, against an unarmoured opponent armed only with a sword or similar weapon, like a big axe...if he tries to close in, well, I'd just step back - distance is the key.

just read "le jeu de la hache" (XVth century Burgundian poleaxe treatise), or even Silver or diGrassi...

my 2 cents...

 

[swilhelm73]

Ok, obviously, I'll have to explain a bit.

The woman with the halberd was facing an unarmed opponent who had a major advantage in hand to hand if he could close (its complicated).

She was wielding a halberd with a pointy base, an axe head, and a pointy tip.

Standing about 5 feet from her opponent, she grabbed the end of the handle, like you might a battle axe, and swung hard. Her opponent stepped back and she missed. He then stepped forward before she could pull the weapon back and grabbed her by the throat.

 

[unmerged(9531)]

i send your explanation to my bros. he's asleep right now (it's 3 : am here) but he will answer tomorrow.

but all i could tell is that the girl don't really know how ti use a halleberd.

 

[Nikolai II]

Originally posted by swilhelm73
Standing about 5 feet from her opponent, she grabbed the end of the handle, like you might a battle axe, and swung hard. Her opponent stepped back and she missed. He then stepped forward before she could pull the weapon back and grabbed her by the throat.

I figure she should have held higher up, so that if she misses she could shift her grip and follow up with the butt end, keeping the opponent at bay while spinning around..

But that's just my imagination

Seriously you might want to note that the halberd went out of style in the 12th and 13th century, never to return. Probably because it was not good enough in formation fighting. It was mostly replaced by the pike IIRC, but that I can check

 

[unmerged(9531)]

Originally posted by Nikolai II
Seriously you might want to note that the halberd went out of style in the 12th and 13th century, never to return. Probably because it was not good enough in formation fighting. It was mostly replaced by the pike IIRC, but that I can check

wrong. the hallberd was used in the 15th century. Why did someone would have write a book about his use if this weapon was useless?

my bros : ok. I see. she'd have better used her halberd as a quarterstaff, then.

 

[unmerged(8399)]

Wrong, the halberd was in use until mid XVII century, I explained in another thread their use in XVI-XVII century formations
c) Halberdiers
Picked soldiers, bold and phisically fit, entrusted with the task of protecting arquebussiers in the open form enemy cavalry, forming small squares, they were part of the agresive skirmishing spanish Tercios used to practice. When they were not used in skirmishing they carried pikes. However, Halberd was clearly a weapon to be used in formation, rather than as self defence in close combat

 

[Arilou]

Agreed, using a pole-arm in personal combat is probably hard (could be done but it's hard) It was a weapon for formation-fighting.

 

[Nikolai II]

Oki-doo, I won't question the majority (for now.. )

I was still right about how she should have done though

 

[Winkelried]

Originally posted by KriegHund

my bros : ok. I see. she'd have better used her halberd as a quarterstaff, then.

What's a "quarterstaff"?

 

[King of Men]

Basically a halberd without the axehead. Or a 'staff', in the plain English. Dunno why they call it a quarterstaff, always looks like a whole staff to me.

 

[unmerged(469)]

Originally posted by Winkelried
What's a "quarterstaff"?

Think Robin Hood and Little John, if that helps.

 

[unmerged(9531)]

my bros will soon answer, be patient (he don't like EU2, wich is the main reason he's not on the forum )

and btw, if you wanna see some of his job see this (all in english. it seems that unfortulantly, french are not interested in medieval combat skills) :

http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery/


http://de.photos.yahoo.com/planet_whoopy (click on hemac and hopla!)(it's in german)

http://www.lart-pour-lart.de/gallery/Dijon2003/ (german too )

 

[unmerged(10971)]

Originally posted by Winkelried
What's a "quarterstaff"?

A very long, thick stick.

 

[unmerged(7924)]

Originally posted by King of Men
Basically a halberd without the axehead. Or a 'staff', in the plain English. Dunno why they call it a quarterstaff, always looks like a whole staff to me.

Maybe Quarter is somekind of lenght? like a quarter... yard?
Well, I'm no good at Medieval lenghts...