Usefulness of psionic ascension

[Dustman]

With 2.2.5 Synth got buffed quite a bit, bio is still the best for slavers, but I can't really come up with scenarios where Psi is a king. Maybe for an uni-specie closed empire like FP of IP? Psi leaders are good, but mechs aren't much worse, and mech pops are generally better.

The only time I really used Psi was as F.Xenophile megacorp, since with influx of xeno and constant interbreeding pop optimization wasn't an option, but still I'd better be off with synths instead.

RP reasons aside, Psi sucks...

 

[Enriak]

Psionic ascension is good in the late-game. You can get better ship components, boons and covenants, which can be more useful than synthetic ascension.

 

[Mastikator]

Psionics have the best leaders, best ship components, and covenant of desire is just as good as synthetic ascension robo bonus. Psy does very not suck

 

[Badesumofu]

Synthetics aren’t even that useful now, let alone the ascension. I feel I’m much better off just sticking with Droids in most cases - a 10% bonus to output is not worth crashing the entire economy as all your robots suddenly need mass quantities of CGs and housing.

Psionic is really strong. Some of the boons are pretty powerful, plus they have amazing leaders, a building that gives 5 stab and a version of the enforcer job that is actually worthwhile, great ship components, great pop trait. Even playing as Materialist I find it’s worthwhile to go Psi at the moment.

 

[Dustman]

My main problem with Psionics is that it's hard to manage conquests with them. Nerve Staple as Bio, or simply assimilate as Synth, and unrest problem is gone. With Psionics you need to go old way, and since slaves got too much political power still, it's not as easy. The building you mentioned plus Psi governor help a bit, but not much, since you'd need pretty decent pop count for best effects.

While Psi leaders are the best, they generally don't live as long as Bio with few proper traits, and not even comparable to immortal Synths. High lvl leaders of other two ascensions compensate for initial difference quite nicely. Sure, Venerable is a fair pick, but quite expensive since it doesn't add much at the start and can't be modded in later cost-wise.

 

[Enriak]

Psionic leaders live long enough, if you get the increased lifetime outcome from the shroud.
And the +10 stability is enough to prevent a revolt.

 

[Longprao]

If you could rush psionic, and got lucky, you could have psy jump drive and precognitive interface very soon. I many times get that when I'm having only hyper drive 3 and basic combat computer.

When you have psy to jump you never want to go back. It's like instant experimental subspace navigation.

Psi is really random, but it's very cool. Sometimes it's super strong with the perks. I love it the most.

 

[Archon87]

Not to mention the Psi Corps building, which is now one per planet instead of one per empire. I'd say they make managing new conquests much easier than gene-modding the population (at least in the short term). Plus you can now assimilate new species to become psionic, which is really nice for a conquest oriented psi empire.

 

[Dustman]

Not to mention the Psi Corps building, which is now one per planet instead of one per empire. I'd say they make managing new conquests much easier than gene-modding the population (at least in the short term). Plus you can now assimilate new species to become psionic, which is really nice for a conquest oriented psi empire.

When it was one per empire it was much nicer, since you just built it and effects were there for all worlds. And while assimilation is nice, net effect for anyone but researchers, and to lesser extent technicians, is very small.

 

[Bouchart]

Psi ascension doesn't require expensive projects to upgrade everyone the way that Biological and Synth does.

 

[Defiler99]

Psi is incredibly powerful. I definitely consider it the strongest ascension path.
Stability (from two different angles), research speed, best admirals, best-in-slot technology, etc.
There are a bunch of ways to get free species traits that compose well with it, whereas all that becomes obsolete when you go bio-ascension.

This is what my psi pops typically look like by mid-game:

 

[Mocarr]

Also going Gospel of the Masses MegaCorp (if you have it) give 0.3 trade value for ever spiritualist pop on your planet and planet where you have branch offices.
So if you have massive spiritualist attractions you get much more non job trade.

 

[Dustman]

Psi is incredibly powerful. I definitely consider it the strongest ascension path.
Stability (from two different angles), research speed, best admirals, best-in-slot technology, etc.
There are a bunch of ways to get free species traits that compose well with it, whereas all that becomes obsolete when you go bio-ascension.

This is what my psi pops typically look like by mid-game:
View attachment 449357

This is impressive, really. Care to explain how you've got there?

 

[Defiler99]

This is impressive, really. Care to explain how you've got there?

Sure. Limited Regeneration from the Orbital Speed-Demon anomaly. (Best applied last, because it's possible to lose it to the other events.)
Intelligent from Horizon Signal. Traditional from gene-modding.

The more interesting ones are Fast Breeders and Strong, which you can get from the self-modified pop event chain. To do it, research Gene Modding while you have some pops on low-habitability worlds. I like to take Non-Adaptive because it makes this even easier, and stops being a disadvantage once you have World Shaper and Arcology Project.

Wait for one of your groups of pops to self-modify, and then immediately go hit Apply on your primary species template, turning them back into the same species as everyone else. You'll lose a few pops due to the "inter-species" violence events that trigger, but now when your self-modified pops gain new traits from the events, the template that's generated is based on your primary species. Each time that happens, just go apply it in the species screen and now everyone has the traits. Brutal.

 

[Longprao]

Sure. Limited Regeneration from the Orbital Speed-Demon anomaly. (Best applied last, because it's possible to lose it to the other events.)
Intelligent from Horizon Signal. Traditional from gene-modding.

The more interesting ones are Fast Breeders and Strong, which you can get from the self-modified pop event chain. To do it, research Gene Modding while you have some pops on low-habitability worlds. I like to take Non-Adaptive because it makes this even easier, and stops being a disadvantage once you have World Shaper and Arcology Project.

Wait for one of your groups of pops to self-modify, and then immediately go hit Apply on your primary species template, turning them back into the same species as everyone else. You'll lose a few pops due to the "inter-species" violence events that trigger, but now when your self-modified pops gain new traits from the events, the template that's generated is based on your primary species. Each time that happens, just go apply it in the species screen and now everyone has the traits. Brutal.

Wow is that an exploit, or a bug? Incredible

 

[trojan1234]

Psionic leaders live long enough, if you get the increased lifetime outcome from the shroud.
And the +10 stability is enough to prevent a revolt.

Shroud is just RNG gamble, you have no choice but pray for better result.

10 stability is not great as you think. 50 lifespan from bio ascension kicks in way faster and reliable than psi. This means your ligh leveled governor keep leveling up while psi leaders dies of old ages. Avg age and level is higher in bio. 10 stab is just 6% production bonus which can be covered by robust and governor level.

There are a bunch of ways to get free species traits that compose well with it, whereas all that becomes obsolete when you go bio-ascension.

Sure. Limited Regeneration from the Orbital Speed-Demon anomaly. (Best applied last, because it's possible to lose it to the other events.)
Intelligent from Horizon Signal. Traditional from gene-modding.

The more interesting ones are Fast Breeders and Strong, which you can get from the self-modified pop event chain. To do it, research Gene Modding while you have some pops on low-habitability worlds. I like to take Non-Adaptive because it makes this even easier, and stops being a disadvantage once you have World Shaper and Arcology Project.

Wait for one of your groups of pops to self-modify, and then immediately go hit Apply on your primary species template, turning them back into the same species as everyone else. You'll lose a few pops due to the "inter-species" violence events that trigger, but now when your self-modified pops gain new traits from the events, the template that's generated is based on your primary species. Each time that happens, just go apply it in the species screen and now everyone has the traits. Brutal.

This sounds like a nice exploit. The event should apply extra trait to random self-modified sub-species. This way seems like to overwrite target species with your main species .

 

[trojan1234]

I agree OP.

The worst part of psi ascension is that getting psi theory tech is RNG dependent. If ocean of consciousness popped around my area, it is joke. Otherwise, getting psi theory is harder because it's rare tech.

Shroud and covenant is another RNG gamble. From my last psi game, I started to reach the shroud in 2304. I got psi computer in 2310, covenant in 2335, psi jump drive in 2355. However, I already hit repeatable techs in 2310s and 6th perks in 2307 - so those bonus are nice but it is too late to make it meaningful.

On top of this, psi lacks of pop growth. I had 774 pops on 26 planets in 2300. This sounds miserable when bio game has 835 pops on 18 planets in 2300. I've yet to play machine because of those bugs in 2.2, gotta play tonight.

 

[Secret Master]

My one complaint about Psionic Ascension is that if you don't end up with Zro in the galaxy, and you can't trade for it, then you are more or less cut off from the special techs if you can even get them from the Shroud. And there are no synthetic Zro plants.

 

[Longprao]

My one complaint about Psionic Ascension is that if you don't end up with Zro in the galaxy, and you can't trade for it, then you are more or less cut off from the special techs if you can even get them from the Shroud. And there are no synthetic Zro plants.

Hmm I believe zro is much more common now compared to the previous releases... In my latest game I got 3 deposits in my territory mid game. In the game I'm playing, still 2250 but already got one. I played psi too much already, but each time I see zro I'm so tempted to be magician again...

 

[Adolf - Finite War]

My one complaint about Psionic Ascension is that if you don't end up with Zro in the galaxy, and you can't trade for it, then you are more or less cut off from the special techs if you can even get them from the Shroud. And there are no synthetic Zro plants.

It's only used for psi-shields in 2.2.3 I haven't noticed anything in the changelogs of .4 and .5 that says that was changed. But I agree there should be a "Below Zro" anomaly in every galaxy and a not-so-mega structure that can refine exotic gases into Zro would be very nice could be a special habitat like Star Wars' Cloud City. Then there should be much more uses for it - Shroud interactions, Edicts, Anomalies, Fallen Empires, Special Buildings, Wonders, Terraforming (Special Gaia Worlds), Sea of Consciousness, Uplifting etc.

As to OP I think Psi-Ascension is fine power wise - the power of an empire depends much more on the initial settings (ethics, civs, species and policies) than the ascension path they pick anyway and Psi-Ascension wins flavour wise hands-down. If you still think the power should be increased than for psi-slavers holding sway over none psi-pops should be much more easy and if psi-pops get conquered they should be much harder to control for none psi-empires. Slavery aside there is room for other improvements as I've described with Zro above - wouldn't hurt to have special res' for every asc' path. Special interactions for Living Metal and Synths, Nanobots and Bio-Ascended empires, Zro and Psionics.