usage of womans in combat/factory - more political options :)

[Industrious1]

these sorts of things can't really be added because once you've played a few times you will have figured out the 'options that work' rather than not knowing whether it wil work or not, this is one of the downfalls for games, is that you can keep trying until it works, for example, german 'total mobilization policy' can be activated once u go to war with poland, in reality there's more stuff to think about than just numbers... so yeah.

 

[Gamer_1745]

As to women in German Industry - I would like to know why so many people are of the opinion that Women did not work in Germany during WW2 - both my Grandmothers worked before, during and after WW2, and no they did not work on a Farm.

Because of the general propaganda of the National Socialist that made much out of women at home with children. It is very true that the number of women in the professions went down from Weimar to the Third Reich. I know that women worked in factories before & during the War. I see much more made out of women in war work in Britain & the U.S. than I do in Germany. It maybe because I watch/read many more English language sources. I have a hard time finding many (I have looked and found a few) photos of women in arms factories in Germany. I can easily find photos of women in factories in the U.S.

 

[Secret Master]

I'd be happy if girls are kept out as soldiers just like in real world. Girls were in factories, not in the battlefield in ww2.

I never thought I'd get to use this one again, either.

 

[ringhloth]

I'd be happy if girls are kept out as soldiers just like in real world. Girls were in factories, not in the battlefield in ww2.

That is not true. The soviets had women serve as Soldiers, Women served in the Luftwaffe and the Wehrmacht in various capacities (mostly in the back Areas), I am sure that other Armies which partook in the Conflict used Women in some capacity or another.

As to women in German Industry - I would like to know why so many people are of the opinion that Women did not work in Germany during WW2 - both my Grandmothers worked before, during and after WW2, and no they did not work on a Farm.

The Americans also had the WAC - Women's Army Corps. While there weren't any strictly combat units, roughly 150,000 participated in various non-combat roles, such as driving trucks, freeing up an estimated 7 divisions worth of manpower. The woman who participated were said to be some of the best soldiers that the generals had available, and there were proposals to draft women for the estimated 50% of "soldier" roles that they could fulfill.

 

[safe-keeper]

I don't think we have to granulate "man power" in so much it would bog down game play. I understand the idea and context from where it is coming from, but, game play wise I'm still a bit confused how much you will have to have for that level of micromanagement to achieve just factory production different than having a higher level extrapolation without the micro.

How woudl this "bog down gameplay"? We're talking one or more decisions you'd activate with a single click of the mouse button. Were you expecting to have to read job applications and interview every single woman applying for work or duty or something?

these sorts of things can't really be added because once you've played a few times you will have figured out the 'options that work' rather than not knowing whether it wil work or not, this is one of the downfalls for games, is that you can keep trying until it works, for example, german 'total mobilization policy' can be activated once u go to war with poland, in reality there's more stuff to think about than just numbers... so yeah.

As you say yourself, there are lots of features like this already. Recruitment policy, research, etc. Sure, with experience you'll discover optimal strategies. This isn't an argument for not having these things in, rather I think the problem lies with options not having both pros and cons. The Black ICE mod, I feel, does a wonderful job at balancing decisions. For example, whenever you research industry techs, your country gains manpower more slowly, because people who would otherwise go to the front are being sent to work in factories. In vanilla HOI3, there's no reason to not take these techs as they only boost your IC gain.

Personally, I feel decisions on whether to allow coloured, women, etc. into factories and the army, if done well, would work great gameplay-wise. Cons could be things like dissent from racists and chauvonists who want to keep the armies and factories reserved for white males.

 

[MartinSWE]

I never thought I'd get to use this one again, either.

Should be noted that it´s not unlikely she had worked at a tank factory before smashing tanks at Kursk though since the Red Army formed a few tank formations made up of volunteers from tank factories. Women where equal to men in the USSR, probably more then in most other nations, and played a vital part in both the industry and military.

Also, great picture/meme ... there´s something about a woman kicking ass

 

[MartinSWE]

Because of the general propaganda of the National Socialist that made much out of women at home with children. It is very true that the number of women in the professions went down from Weimar to the Third Reich. I know that women worked in factories before & during the War. I see much more made out of women in war work in Britain & the U.S. than I do in Germany. It maybe because I watch/read many more English language sources. I have a hard time finding many (I have looked and found a few) photos of women in arms factories in Germany. I can easily find photos of women in factories in the U.S.

Women had to work in the industry when the Wehrmacht expanded quickly but it´s was certainly not something the nazis liked since it wen´t completely against their ideas of a traditional gender roles.

 

[NikephorosSonar]

I really don't see the point, manpower is manpower, the game doesn't discriminate.

 

[MartinSWE]

I really don't see the point, manpower is manpower, the game doesn't discriminate.

But the view on women´s role in society was different depending on which country you are looking at. Thus it would make sense to have a 'decision' where you can allow women to join the military/industry and depnding on which country you play as it could have different consequences. It´s a fact that the War was in a way positive for women´s liberation from the traditional gender roles since they where allowed into areas which had previously been seen as suitable only for men.

 

[NikephorosSonar]

Why not just give left-wing governments a bonus to recruitment and leave it at that? There's no way short of national survival being highly unlikely that you would see the US put women into frontline combat in the 1940s. Even the Soviets kept it to a relative minimum and they created a society quite unlike most. Making a decision of this nature would probably be have no real downside to take so why include it?

HOI isn't a feminist (or other social) history simulation, it's a wargame.

A simple decision formatted like Darkest Hour would of course be one thing, I feel like the wishes of this thread would be another.

 

[BBBD316]

I would like the options to allow women to take up a gradually increasing role in the war, however I think these options only open up after total mobalistation or suffer huge dissent.

After all we are here to win a war and care little for the fault out after, as long as we can man our armies and if we can increase manpower to double our forces we would all do it.

By the way forget the Fusion, give me power armour from Fallout so that my brigades can route armies.

 

[Phibs]

Why not just give left-wing governments a bonus to recruitment and leave it at that? There's no way short of national survival being highly unlikely that you would see the US put women into frontline combat in the 1940s. Even the Soviets kept it to a relative minimum and they created a society quite unlike most. Making a decision of this nature would probably be have no real downside to take so why include it?

HOI isn't a feminist (or other social) history simulation, it's a wargame.

A simple decision formatted like Darkest Hour would of course be one thing, I feel like the wishes of this thread would be another.

This sounds reasonable.

 

[Secret Master]

Should be noted that it´s not unlikely she had worked at a tank factory before smashing tanks at Kursk though since the Red Army formed a few tank formations made up of volunteers from tank factories. Women where equal to men in the USSR, probably more then in most other nations, and played a vital part in both the industry and military.

Also, great picture/meme ... there´s something about a woman kicking ass

She was actually this woman: Aleksandra Samusenko

Wiki doesn't have a lot of information about her beyond her citations for bravery, but she appears to have military service prior to 1941. I wonder if the rumors of her fighting in Spain are true?

I actually have several memes of this type left over from the Women of the World thread from awhile back. Too bad we had to kill that thread due to trolling.

 

[General WVPM]

the idea is nice, perhaps increased production and manpower (as the men no longer need to work in industry) at the cost of popularity or something?
for women in the army i could imagine a penalty in moral and/or organisation

as for germany, why use women when u got PoWs and other prisoners as slaves?

 

[Opanashc]

as for germany, why use women when u got PoWs and other prisoners as slaves?

Not to be discussed on this forum.

 

[Secret Master]

And it's too bad I have to kill this thread because of forum rules violations.

HOI4 will not feature war crimes, concentration camps, violations of the Geneva Convention regarding POW treatments, slave labor, or any other things of this nature. We will also not be discussing these things on this forum. Please review the forum rules.

Thread closed.