USA GOI in South America

[msaaim89]

Did the United States in real life gurantee the independence of South America? Or has PI added this for game balance?

I ask as I am playing Germany and thought it would be a good strat to start setting up bases in South America for resources but every country seems to have GOI by USA.

 

[Wowwars]

Monroe Doctrine, its Alive! yeah they did basically do this against foriegn powers. n to stop south america from uniting into a power itself.

 

[msaaim89]

to stop south america from uniting into a power itself.

Now that makes sense

 

[21oliver]

Where did that come from????

It had nothing to do with South America uniting. It was implemented to deter European colonization. See below;

In his message to Congress, Monroe set forth the following principles, which would later become known as the Monroe Doctrine:
•The Western Hemisphere was no longer open for colonization
•The political system of the Americas was different from Europe
•The United States would regard any interference in Western hemispheric affairs as a threat to its security
•The United States would refrain from participation in European wars and would not disturb existing colonies in the Western Hemisphere

Just a note in game, there are 4 nations on the western hemisphere not guaranteed at games start, that you can attack without worrying about the USA DOWing you. They are Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti and Ecuador. They will however eventually guarantee these nations as they get more geared up for war, so watch.

 

[Meglok]

Well, while the Monroe Doctrine was technically only to prevent Old Europe from playing around in the Americas, I can't see the USA standing around while Brazil or Argentina conquers all of South America, at least in the time frame of HOI3. US policy was to keep this area divided and under the thumb of the US. Allowing a super power to grow in South America would have been seen as against the interests of the US. The response would have been the same as it was in history, send in the Marines.

 

[21oliver]

That isnt typical US response. Brazil would get to take one nation. They take the second one, they would be warned. The third would lead to embargo. The next would lead to DOW likely. There were several South american wars in the 30s-40s and none of them led to Patton landing with 20 armor divisions as the Ai is prone to do. There should be some leeway here, especially if the nations are unfactioned.

 

[gjflanker]

That isnt typical US response. Brazil would get to take one nation. They take the second one, they would be warned. The third would lead to embargo. The next would lead to DOW likely. There were several South american wars in the 30s-40s and none of them led to Patton landing with 20 armor divisions as the Ai is prone to do. There should be some leeway here, especially if the nations are unfactioned.

I agree. The Marines were sent in to multiple Central/South American countries multiple times in the early 1900s, however, in order to 'maintain order', i.e. when some faction or other threatened to upset the apple cart. The US viewed Central and South America as economic colonies and maintained 'order' so that American companies could exploit those countries to the benefit of themselves and the U.S.

In terms of game, the US GOI of almost all the minors in the Western Hemisphere severely limits a players options; HOI2 was the same way. I'm trying my first HOI3 game as Argentina and DOW'd Uruguay on 10/01/39. The US immediately honored their treaty and DOWd me. Not good for my future prospects. :-( I'm guessing also not good for Germany and Japan as now the US will access all that dormant IC much sooner than IRL.

I'm wondering if a) waiting longer increases chances of the US not honoring GOIs; b) there is anything at all that can be done during the build up via diplomacy to change US policy; or c) can the chances of the US honoring their GOIs be modified in the files in any way.

 

[21oliver]

you have basically 2 options that work well (there are others but these are more typical and workable). First, join the Allies, wait until the US joins the Allies, then you can DOW anyone in the Western Hemisphere that isnt in the allies and the US wont care. Second is to join the Axis, accept the DOW against the Allies (before the US joins) take all the lendlease you can and build yourself up, dont DOW anyone in the Americas UNTIL the USA is embroiled with Japan in the Pacific, then they wont be able to spend as many resources on you.

BTW. At the games start (Jan 1 1936) the USA doesnt guarentee Cuba, Haiti, Dominian Republic or Ecuador. Meaning they are free to attack without repercussion. BUT later on as the USA gears up for war and begins changing its laws, they will guarentee those four.

 

[SDM50]

Is there no end to the US GOI in South America later in the game? Maybe after ww2 finishes?

 

[wubbeyman]

@SDM50 no the Monroe doctrine was only just ended by Obama (so well out side hoi3 timeframe)

 

[EmperorBatman999]

The US guarantee represents two things:

1. The Monroe Doctrine, where the US vowed to stop any further colonial efforts by European powers in the Western Hemisphere. This could also include ideological colonialism like during the Cold War.

2. If a regional power in South America grew too strong, it would certainly be American business to cut them down to size to protect American assets and also to maintain hegemony over the Americas.

 

[Oof]

BTW. At the games start (Jan 1 1936) the USA doesnt guarentee Cuba, Haiti, Dominian Republic or Ecuador. Meaning they are free to attack without repercussion. BUT later on as the USA gears up for war and begins changing its laws, they will guarentee those four.

It’s a bit odd that Cuba and Haiti don’t start with GOI...at least. IME both should be US puppets from the start though. Haiti was occupied by the US from 1915 – 1934 and after the occupation couldn’t do anything without US permission. The Cuban constitution had a clause in which the USA had the right to intervene in internal affairs, to supervise it’s finances and foreign relations. That clause was in effect until Castro came to power in 1959.

 

[Palmerdale]

Where did that come from????

It had nothing to do with South America uniting. It was implemented to deter European colonization. See below;

In his message to Congress, Monroe set forth the following principles, which would later become known as the Monroe Doctrine:
•The Western Hemisphere was no longer open for colonization
•The political system of the Americas was different from Europe
•The United States would regard any interference in Western hemispheric affairs as a threat to its security
•The United States would refrain from participation in European wars and would not disturb existing colonies in the Western Hemisphere

Just a note in game, there are 4 nations on the western hemisphere not guaranteed at games start, that you can attack without worrying about the USA DOWing you. They are Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti and Ecuador. They will however eventually guarantee these nations as they get more geared up for war, so watch.

Exactly. The Monroe Doctrine was aimed to prevent further European intervention into the Western Hemisphere. It really didn't apply to one SA country having hostilities with another. It;s a place where the game got the history wrong, but probably for valid game-balance issues. HoI's implementation of the Monroe Doctrine effectively keeps the focus on the Europe and Pacific wars, though.

 

[21oliver]

There were 3-4 wars from the 1920's till like 1950 or so between South American nations, none required US intervention. If Argentina invades Paraguay it shouldnt bring Patton and 50 armored divisions amphibbing the coast.... I hope this game its better done.

 

[Ted52]

There were 3-4 wars from the 1920's till like 1950 or so between South American nations, none required US intervention. If Argentina invades Paraguay it shouldnt bring Patton and 50 armored divisions amphibbing the coast.... I hope this game its better done.

Sounds American to me

No seriously, you are right.