USA for WC attempt, Ironman 1444 start as....

[parats]

This will bring 0,1 pt/yr, not that much as he post updates on a 10yr basis.

 

[mackwolfe]

I didn't think inflation would generate this much discussion!

there's a theme with most strategy games which is that power early is almost always better than power late.

Very true. Strategy games are about allocating scarce resources and timing that allocation.

I almost never use ADM to reduce inflation as I find it a big waste to be honest. I would only do it if I only had too much ADM - I always look for an advisor first to reduce it and if possible take Economic Ideas.

That was my point. I think people should reduce it more often. I have not taken Economic ideas in a long time. Not because they are bad, but because the slot is better used for something else.

Think about it, for 75 admin, you reduce ALL your expenses ( not just army, but also forts and advisors and state maintenance and missionaries ) by 2% for the whole game. Contrast that to ideas that use 400 points to reduce land army by 10% ( so 80 pts for each 2% reduction).

I guess he drops it 5 times from 14 to 4 by 75adm per time.

so I guess it would be 3 or 4 times.

You're both right. It was 4 to 5 times . I just got tired of seeing the negative budget balance and I kept clicking reduce inflation till it grayed out.

 

[mackwolfe]

I was thinking after seeing this; would France continue to colonise America (your territory) if you would have let one colony alive at your coast?

Great point. The Wiki generally recommends you do not keep the mother country colonies nearby to avoid competition. But if I redo this run, I would strategically place mother colonies upstream of me ( e.g in Louisiana) . If France had colonized Louisiana, their trade would feed into my nodes. plus they would give me institution spread.
Of course I could not have let a colony live in Eastern USA . It automatically gets added to CN before release .

Luckily it ended well, do you use mercenaries for infantry to preserve manpower?

Yes. Infantry mercs . In fact I think merging them and re-recruiting them is cheaper than letting them reinforce naturally. THis is what I did in this war and I was surprised I did not take out a loan for it ( or maybe it was the inflation reduction).

Here's why merge-recruit may be better. Say you fight a battle with 15 infantry mercs in June and win, losing 5K infantry in process. You merge all your mercs . THe 15 units are now 10 units. YOu pay zero reinforcements since they are full strength. In November, the enemy shows up again. You quickly recruit the 5K mercs in 3 provinces ( takes 1 month ). You are back to 15. But you avoided paying maintenance on 5 units for 6 months.

 

[Tom D.]

Think about it, for 75 admin, you reduce ALL your expenses ( not just army, but also forts and advisors and state maintenance and missionaries ) by 2% for the whole game. Contrast that to ideas that use 400 points to reduce land army by 10% ( so 80 pts for each 2% reduction).

Since when does inflation increases fort costs, missionaries and the lot? I knew about the advisors but also land maintenance? I actually never looked decently at the effects of inflation properly though... But even then I don't think you're saving that much if you reduce inflation by 2 or 4%.

Here's why merge-recruit may be better. Say you fight a battle with 15 infantry mercs in June and win, losing 5K infantry in process. You merge all your mercs . THe 15 units are now 10 units. YOu pay zero reinforcements since they are full strength. In November, the enemy shows up again. You quickly recruit the 5K mercs in 3 provinces ( takes 1 month ). You are back to 15. But you avoided paying maintenance on 5 units for 6 months.

That's right, if you have a decent economy and all your infantry is mercenaries then you're good to go.

 

[atwix]

I conquered the world with Ryukyu while having 120+% inflation.

So it isn't a wc stopper.

That said, its NICE to have it at 0, because it allows expanding powerbase and investing in buildings/mercs lot MORE

 

[mackwolfe]

I conquered the world with Ryukyu while having 120+% inflation.

I guess inflation can be ignored as long as you have money . . In my situation I had a loan taken, so clearly I was not swimming in money. The alternative use for those admin points was going to be the +3 Missionary Strength idea in religious group. I think I made the right choice in that situation. We'll see what I end the run with. Could very well be over 20% once I am filthy rich.

 

[mackwolfe]

THe 1590's: From the Cape to Aden

I left the last chapter having won a tough fight with Ethiopia, and was having an easy war with Medri Bahri. Once Ethiopian cores finish, I make peace with Medri:

I get to control the Bab El Mandeb strait, the Aden CoT and get a border with Hejaz and Mecca. I was excited to attack Hejaz, but then I see the Ottomans had an interest in the area:

I was already getting a ding on my relations with Ottomans because I held Jedda that they claimed. Although Ottomans guaranteed Hejaz, I could have attacked Hejaz indirectly through an alliance they had with Warsangali, and that would have allowed me to take Mecca. But I was worried that taking Mecca would anger Ottomans a lot. ANd I was trying really hard to get an alliance with Ottomans to avoid them racking up AE as I invade Sunni India. SO I make a conscious decision to forgo the extra missionary in order to snatch an alliance with Ottomans:

(screenshot of a Papal Legate helping Republican America secure an alliance with the Muslim Sultan . I guess I lied when I said I only use papal influence for mercantilism and stability).

My next wars are a bit of cleanup in the Aden node:

(screenshot of Marehan getting annexed - insets show the very short life of independent Hobyo, all of 45 days. When you break up an enemy - here Ethiopia - do not give them back military access and then you can swallow their successful rebels with ease).

My next cleanup target is Antemoro in Madagascar, who held a whopping 1/3 of the Zanzibar trade power due to a big fleet. But first a bit of news from Europe:

Holland is on a ramapage and just managed to defeat Austria! . I posted this just for the benefit of any dutch readers .

For Antemoro, I do not have a land border and i have to use conquest CB using fabricated claim across the Mozambique channel. Because of this , I decide to just grab a couple of provinces ( my claim and a neighboring fort). Taking more land was too costly in Diplo Points. I will take the rest later in Holy War.

Continuing the cleanup of East Africa, I go after Maravi ( another nation with a large fleet sucking up trade) and their friend Mutapa:

(Screenshot of DOW on Mutapa and Cursade called on my behalf by the Pope )
While in the war , I get notice of Crusade. I check the war ledger. I am the only one at war with Infidels. I am NOT the papal controller ( I have no cardinals in Europe) and I do not know who called it, but I am glad for the bonuses. If that keeps happening while I attack India, this would be good news. A rare bonus for being catholic I guess.

It is an easy war, but I delay the peace a bit until I get the next diplomatic group idea, which allows me to take 3 more provinces ( thanks @bbqftw for the suggestion to dump Trade group for diplo).

THis brings us to 1600. I have an almost cotinuous coast from the Cape to Aden.

Since this is a century mark and generally considered the end of the opening phase of the game, it is time to take stock of the situation.

First, tech and institutions:

I can finally embrace Printing Press - 50 years late - assuming I get the money. I hope the next one ( GLobal Trade ) spreads a bit quicker ( I do control lots of Centers of Trade, so there is hope). Instead of teching up, I have been focusing on getting my ideas filled:

I am now one idea short of completing them . THe last two NI's are useless for me , but the ambition bonus is important: +0.5 RT per year. i.e constant re-elections of my leaders.

Speaking of leaders and mana, I have a 6/5/5 president at the moment, and generating decent points:

My income is over 1000 annual, first in the world ( followed by Ottomans, Spain and England):

I am getting the 34 ducats / months in gold that atwix mentioned before. As soon as I core Mutapa, and assign them a state ( even if not fully cored) this will go up.

Trade is still just 21% of income, not a healthy sign at this point :

The problem is I have little power in Caribbean . In fact, instead of protecting trade there , I get more money by privateering ( about 2.9 per months - the spoils of war in the income section). Privateering also gives me more Power Projection too. Zanzibar is my biggest trade node, and will get bigger once I conquer Antemoro ( truce expires 1605) and once I start getting to Ceylon and / or Malacca nodes.
My economy is just enough to support a sizeable army:

My force limit is about to jump significantly as soon as I finish Quantity. I will need more money to support a larger army ( so I may still need to drop inflation )

My empire is very spread out, so a big navy is a must. So far I have just fought weak enemies ( no Europeans at all since independence!). My navy lags a lot behind the combined navies of Spain and England. So not possible to take them on now.

Alliance wise, I have Ottomans and France and Burgundy. Strong allies who keep me safe from Spanish aggression.

Europe map:

Burgundy and Holland are unsually big and alive at this stage. Otherwise, standard map. France rules over Provence, so they are on the way back, unless someone stomps them back down.

Asia:

I have a pesky piece of Terra incognita covering the Maldives, so cannot send a colonist there to fabricate on Kochin. I have enough spy network with Bahmanis to uncover it. But I was hoping to use that for Malacca node. I have tried to steal more maps, but I often get caught between 25 and 50 spy size.

Potential wars I can initiate next:
- Against Portugal using a claim on East Frisia ( thanks to my province in Denmark - weird yes?):

Burgundy is willing to help me in this war, so it may be actually easy. This will be Conquest CB, so taking Portuguese land in America/Caribbean will cost lots of diplo points. Attacking Portugal directly brings in Spain-England.

- Keep expanding via holy war in Arabia to Sind and India.

- Expand with colonist to Kochin ->India or to Sumatra->Malaya.

Since my entire army is in Africa, I think it is more efficient to focus on the latter 2 options. Soon Zanzibar and Aden will eclipse trade in Caribbean. I am at a big tech disadvantage with Europeans, but the next two institutions tend to spread quicker to coastal and manufactories areas, so I may be able to keep up.

Overall, I would have like to be stronger by this point, the end of the "preparation phase" as bbqftw put it. I still think WC is doable ( If it is isn't, I will lose interest in the run, so don't tell me if you want the AAR to continue).

 

[Tom D.]

Holland is on a ramapage and just managed to defeat Austria! . I posted this just for the benefit of any dutch readers .

Yeah, rob it in my face when you're at it .

(Screenshot of DOW on Mutapa and Cursade called on my behalf by the Pope )

As you can see, Spain is the Papal Controller so or they did call for the Crusade or another country before them.

 

[mackwolfe]

Yeah, rob it in my face when you're at it .

I thought Holland and Flanders were friends and kind of the same culture, no? I better read up on that history

As you can see, Spain is the Papal Controller so or they did call for the Crusade or another country before them.

Why would Spain do it though? do they also get the bonuses?

 

[Tom D.]

I thought Holland and Flanders were friends and kind of the same culture, no? I better read up on that history

Netherlands and Flanders/Belgium have kind of a love-hate relationship (the Dutch still can't stand they lost Belgium but don't tell them ). Belgium/Netherlands history is very interesting, you should definitely read up on that.

Why would Spain do it though? do they also get the bonuses?

I don't know, it depends on whether they want to expand in the region or not, if they are rivals, ... I as Ottomans for example became the target of a crusade because of my rival Austria, so it depends on the circumstances.

 

[mackwolfe]

THe 1600s: Managing Admin

As you can tell, I am not a WC expert. So to guide my next 200 years, I wrote down some crucial dates . These relate to the most important resources to manage : time and monarch points. These are affected significantly by technology , and so I wrote down the dates for when the tech becomes available without penalty:

1609 : 1st admin efficiency ( 20% less OE and coring costs)
1635 : Star Forts - level 6 Having a level up on the enemy hastens sieges, but encountering those level 6 forts slows down sieges
1687: Second admin efficiency ( another 20%) and Imperialism CB
1700: FOrtress - level 8
1745: Last admin efficiency (20%)

In addition , the 3 remaining institutions are easy to remember( 1600,1650,1700). FOr the military techs, the AI often adopts a few years before. The most important year is 1687 ( imperialism) when I should be engaged in continuous war to feed or eat land.

So let's get back to our AAR. I ended the last chapter with a discussion on various ways to India. I start on the easiest one, via Holy War on the Arabian coast. I declare on Yemen, allied to Hormuz:. Both are small countries and are easily defeated. In the peace, however, I change my tack a bit:

Instead of doing separate peace treaties to maximize money and land, I do a single one to save diplo points ( and diplomat travel time). And I do not take anything from primary belligerent. Rather I take bare minimum necessary to continue the push to India. I basically take CoTs , and land border with Sind. I'm trying to save on admin points so that I can either tech up to get the -20% discount, or get Administrative Idea #2 after dumping Expansion group.

And after thinking about this issue some time, I decide to dump Expansion and take admin. Main reason is coring cost and coring time reduction. Second reason is mercenary discount from first idea. THe benefits of expansion group are limited since I already have an extra colonist from my national ideas:

(screenshot of idea status when I dump Expansion - this results in loss of last 2 NIs and the ambition bonus. The refund and my AMP pool are enough to take the first idea ( mercenary cost -25%, but not the second (coring cost ) )

So I sit on the over-extension from Hormuz until I can get the discount.
Meanwhile in Europe, it is league war time:

Pretty much all Europe is involved. My friends ( Burgundy, Ottomans , France ) are on the Protestant side, my rival ( Spain) on Catholic.
I decide not to get involved for now. ANd I focus on continuing push to India.

My next target is Sind. But instead of direct declaration , I go via their ally Oman, because Sind is allies with a large Bukhara that I would have a hard time reaching.

Taking out Oman itself is easy. But because Sind is secondary belligerent, I need to capture the exact provinces I wanted. And the province I wanted most was Thatta in the east. THe way to it was blocked by a mountain fort at Kalat. And they had 41K stack sitting in Thatta , so no way I could do amphibian landing and win. So I end up feigning an attack on the fort. This draws their army from Thatta and I manage to land my force from the fleet before they come back.

After I siege Thatta, the AI stupidly reacts by sieging Muscat . I immediately block the Hormuz strait with my navy and then defeat their army and annihilate it:

In the peace I manage to take Thatta and the coast leading to it. I initially wanted to release Baluchistan, but this turns out to be protectorate . I read up on the Wiki about protectorates ( I used them a lot in my Norway run), and they are now useless because they will break free in a few years. So I decide to core the land myself. Luckily I have gotten the coring cost reduction from Admin idea 2 by now.

While waiting on those cores, I start a new war with Antemoro. This is the nation in madagascar that is sucking half of my trade power in Zanzibar . I fought them before, but took only 2 provinces to allow Holy War CB. Now their truce expires and it is time to kick their butt. After a brief war, they are ready to peace out at 100%:

But because I am sitting at high OE already, I cannot take the peace now . And I really want to tech up on admin ( forced march is next, then 2 levels later is admin efficiency). So I cannot start another annexation war yet.
This is becoming frustrating as I feel I am wasting valuable time. So I decide to make a brief detour, and go where provinces do not have to be cored and do not cause over-extentions: colonies in the New World.

I check on Europe. The league war is tearing it apart, and the Catholics are losing . Bohemia, leader of the Protestants, has been peacing out the Catholic members one by one, occasionally giving land to its friends:

(screenshot of one example of multiple separate peace treaties signed. In this one, France gets back land. NOte the Ottoman stack in Navarre fighting with the spanish. nice. )
I decide this is a good time as any to declare war on Portugal, via East Frisia that I described in the previous chapter.
I fill up my transport fleet to the max with troops from East Africa( 47K), and send it to the coast of Portugal. I also send my privateer fleet in the Caribbean to Portugal to guard the transports. When I get notice that the fleet arrived, I declare war:

And I almost bungle the whole thing up!! You see, the fleet that arrived was my Caravel escort, not the transports :

And so it is another 40 days before I can start unloading my armies. THey barely make it to Algarve before the main Portuguese fleet arrives. With my ships having had attrition from the long voyage, they start to drop like bricks in the water and I have to withdraw from the naval battle, leaving my army stranded.

(screenshot of American troops in Algarve, inset shows the American fleet losing to the Portuguese. The US Marines are on their own)

REalizing that a battle loss meant annhiliation of my army, I start to bulk it up with mercenaries recruited from ALgarve, force limits be damned. And I advance to siege Lisboa as fast as possible before the Portuguese regroup.
I am very, very fortunate that Lisboa falls just as Portugal lands a 47K stack in Algarve:

Seeing them promptly advance towards my army, I realize I'm in trouble and decide to take whatever peace I can get while I'm ahead

I try to take as much of Caribbean as I can ( per atwix suggestion). BUt I can only take a few provinces. I am able , however, to break their alliance with Spain. My truce with Portugal runs out in 8 years, so I'll have a 2 year window where I can attack them without Spain butting in .

At this point, the cores from Sind have finished, and I can take land from Antemoro :

I also have to finish the nominal war with East Frisia ( remember, East Frisia was technically war leader over Portugal) . So I send my army there via the fleet, land and defeat them in battle and white peace them. On the way back, I stop in Scotland to replenish the ships:

I look at Europe and the league war:

It is still raging on, and the Ottomans are sieging Madrid.

Since I am low on admin points, it is time to expand by vassal feeding. With my troops already there, maybe I should I declare Reconquest War for Scotland's cores.

What do you think?

 

[parats]

If you are fast enough you could carpet siege england before spain could land troops to stop you. Keep in mind that spains WE will not rise if you dont blockade or occupy and they are the warleader.

Just in generel - do you try to use threaten war to get a foothold instead of a quick war? Why not threaten madagascar for the foothold?

 

[atwix]

I get to control the Bab El Mandeb strait, the Aden CoT and get a border with Hejaz and Mecca. I was excited to attack Hejaz, but then I see the Ottomans had an interest in the area:

SO I make a conscious decision to forgo the extra missionary in order to snatch an alliance with Ottomans:

attack Hejaz after using favors with Ottomans to attack whoever.

I am getting the 34 ducats / months in gold that atwix mentioned before.

I decide this is a good time as any to declare war on Portugal, via East Frisia that I described in the previous chapter.

Should have waited bit longer, until Protestants were sieging Iberia.

I try to take as much of Caribbean as I can ( per atwix suggestion). BUt I can only take a few provinces. I am able , however, to break their alliance with Spain. My truce with Portugal runs out in 8 years, so I'll have a 2 year window where I can attack them without Spain butting in .

Next war you'll have to go all out on Portugal.

Move trade port to Caribbean after taking coastal stuff in Iberia, to reduce trade sucking out of Caribbean? Then England can't suck anything out, due to cok in Chesapeake.

I think you can leave England alone, if you take load in Iberia. But, does France also suck a lot out of Caribbean?

I had this exact same situation in Haida run, and in the end I just collected everywhere..

If Spain gets load of war exhaustion, then England might get pretender rebels that make England FREE after they take London.

Maybe that is better idea: I'd go all out on Iberia, as France is your ally. Only France will care if you take loads of Iberia anyways.

For the next 100 years I'd try to nibble at England and Iberia, and leave rest alone. Go for Asia bigtime, and try to conquer it whole before 1750, setting up trade chain from China into Caribbean.

Then go all out on Europe with admin efficiency 3 and imperialism and offensive idea group for better sieging.


for NOW: do you have any cb on spain directly? I'd wait till league war ravages spain, and THEN invade them. League war tyically will siege nations one by one, and peace them out. Almost ALL catholics need to be peaced out before Protestant leader can enforce protenstantism as main religion, and AI GOES for that. Get at least ONE cheap foothold in Iberia, and then go for Portugal.

I honestly think you should declare the war, just to disband all their aliances. go for Iberia in long run. Taking scottish cores won't help you lot, as they aren't in Channel node. And as said big war exhaustion might spawn pretenders in England. So maybe go for Sevilla in this war?

 

[Tom D.]

You what, 10% refund, that's horrible! Wasn't it 50% in earlier patches?

Those are some well thought strategies over there .

Seeing them promptly advance towards my army, I realize I'm in trouble and decide to take whatever peace I can get while I'm ahead

You probably could have dealt with them if you stationed your army at Evora: that's hilly terrain (if you're playing Portugal that's the best place to build a fort).

What do you think?

Maybe that is better idea: I'd go all out on Iberia, as France is your ally. Only France will care if you take loads of Iberia anyways.

I agree with what atwix said.

 

[mackwolfe]

do you try to use threaten war to get a foothold instead of a quick war?

Didn't think of this. I may use it on Kochin. Thanks for suggestions. Good tip.

 

[mackwolfe]

. Keep in mind that spains WE will not rise if you dont blockade or occupy

Very true. I will have to attack Spain .

Should have waited bit longer, until Protestants were sieging Iberia.

League war tyically will siege nations one by one, a

I was worried league war ends too soon. I have not had much experience with them ( seen it twice only and this is first time I see protestants winning ). So it helps a lot to know what to expect. This is a great tip.

Taking scottish cores won't help you lot, as they aren't in Channel node. And as said big war exhaustion might spawn pretenders in England. So maybe go for Sevilla in this war?

Excellent points.
Sevilla this war ( with Cadiz and Gibraltar if possible)
Then in 8 years DOW portugal
Then when truce expires with Spain , attack them with Ottos help. Take HEjaz in meantime as you suggested. It all fits together.
I''ll be calling this multi-step war "operation atwix " in the AAR.

I do have a conquest CB on spain: Scotland has a bunch of Claims on Spanish Canada. THis even gives a very easy wargoal ( screenshot):

Question is when to attack. I think now is the best time, before they peace out Spain:

 

[atwix]

Then when truce expires with Spain , attack them with Ottos help. Take HEjaz in meantime as you suggested. It all fits together.
I''ll be calling this multi-step war "operation atwix " in the AAR.

heh, thanks. I'll give another pro tip: core hejaz before ending war you dragged Ottomans in. I *think* AI always reshuffles vital territory when an ally gets a CORE on the flagged province. Hence why you got to prolong the war Ottomans help in until mecca is cored.

Question is when to attack. I think now is the best time, before they peace out Spain:

Typically thr AI will peace out league members one by one, moving southwest into Iberia. So, in the end everyone will steamroll into Iberia.

It is best to declare NOW, farm easy warscore with some easy wargoal (hence why I asked if easy conquest cb was at hand) and then occupy whatever you can in Spain with the indirect help of the protestant league war members. In theory you can place 1k merc stacks on all forts, and hope that league war members siege it down for you.
Or, let league occupy entire Spain, and you place 1k stacks on all occupied provinces, and enough troops to siege forts if you can spare it. When league war ends, Spain can't make new troops then.

If you want, I can help realtime in private conversation also, or on skype or something. Up to you.

P.s: do you still got that norwegian wood campaign save? i'd fire it up and check production lead stats for naval supplies. If ANYONE else then Norway shows up, you got your source of not getting achievement. It might be real tiny island somewhere. Anyways, check ledger for it.

 

[Tom D.]

Question is when to attack. I think now is the best time, before they peace out Spain:

Their capital is Madrid, not Toledo so it might take some time before they peace them out which will help you.

 

[mackwolfe]

Their capital is Madrid, not Toledo so it might take some time before they peace them out which will help you.

You are very correct. Keen eye.

I played just a few months, and the problem is not that Madrid was sieged, but that Vienna was taken. Austria peaced out

 

[Tom D.]

Austria peaced out

And they are the leader of the Catholic side?