USA 6 research slots?

[Marfach]

Which leaves US some 100 factories short of actual World% in 1936. USSR some 20-40 factories short. The naval dockyards also seem to be all over the place.

I've done a lot of research into economies at the time and if we use Germany as the baseline then the USSR's economy should be about on par with Germany's due to an increased reliance on agricultural and mining products which are on map resources. Germany had a much much higher per capita income representing the high quality and efficiency of Germany industry at the time. GDP per capita in Germany was $5125 while in the USSR it was about $2100 and per capita GDP in the UK and the USA was at about $6000 as of 1938 in 1990 US$ so despite the nominally higher GDP in the soviet Union it was much less industrial due to reliance on manpower heavy sectors like mining and farming and a generally poorly run and/or outdated manufacturing industry.

I think there is a mistake in the wiki made by someone like you who thinks a beaker picture is automatically an additional research slot.

The Scientist Haven focus is probably science related, but not an extra research slot as the other one is clearly labelled "extra research slot".

This was my understanding of The Scientist Haven too but it wouldn't be nonsensical to give the USA an extra research slot considering the countries large and mostly well educated population.

 

[Augustus93]

US stronk! Freedom incoming... I will be playing as the US in my first game so I will not complain.
Thanks for giving yet another reason to play as the USA.

 

[Nicolas I]

...This was my understanding of The Scientist Haven too but it wouldn't be nonsensical to give the USA an extra research slot considering the countries large and mostly well educated population.

I did said that a few posts earlier:

...USA were both the prime industrial powerhouse and a giant scientific hub. As the 6th slot is added by "scientist haven", it means they also got boosted by foreign minds....

I was just quite surprised because they never mentioned it since the USA DD in november 2015, despite being something major.

 

[Marfach]

I did said that a few posts earlier:


I was just quite surprised because they never mentioned it since the USA DD in november 2015, despite being something major.

I think from the "sandbox" point of view it also doesn't make sense. People are quick to claim its a sandbox not a historical simulation when it suits their point, but if it is a sandbox then all nations should be capable of a similar end game. I like it over-all, mods can always remove it if it imbalances things in extended time-lines etc.

 

[Orlunu]

The Russians only declared war to Japan very late, the 8 august 1945. Two days after the first atomic bomb was dropped, one day before the second one. Hiro-Hito announced the surrender on august 15, which was finalized on September 2.

Though that did help the Allies I don't deny this fact, they did this mainly as a last ditch effort to get some spoils when Japan was already almost beaten.

Oh, I completely agree. It still wasn't the nukes that made the Japanese surrender, though.

 

[scroggin]

The Russians only declared war to Japan very late, the 8 august 1945. Two days after the first atomic bomb was dropped, one day before the second one. Hiro-Hito announced the surrender on august 15, which was finalized on September 2.

Though that did help the Allies I don't deny this fact, they did this mainly as a last ditch effort to get some spoils when Japan was already almost beaten.

That is a myth the Russians promised the allies they would attack the Japanese within 6 months of the fall of Germany. The invasion of Manchuria involved a huge build-up of forces taking several months. It wasnt a last minute opportunistic land grab, rather it was a operation that went ahead on schedule after a massive preparation.

The Invasion of manchuria was one of the largest mechanized operations of WW2. It took a long time to transfer all the forces and supplies the length of Russia. It dwarfed operation overlord for size. The soviets commited 1.5 million troops, 27,000 artillery peices, 1150 rocket launchers, 5500 tanks and self propelled guns, 3700 aircraft to this operation.

Im no apologist for the soviets. As far as Im concerned they were as bad as the nazi's. But the idea that the Soviet Invasion of Manchuria was a last minute land grab, just isnt fact.

 

[Nicolas I]

I think from the "sandbox" point of view it also doesn't make sense. People are quick to claim its a sandbox not a historical simulation when it suits their point, but if it is a sandbox then all nations should be capable of a similar end game. I like it over-all, mods can always remove it if it imbalances things in extended time-lines etc.

They always used the two words "historical sandbox".

So even if they opened many interesting "what if" possibilities, the background of WW2 and historical strenghts and weaknesses of the countries remain.

 

[xtfoster]

I did said that a few posts earlier:


I was just quite surprised because they never mentioned it since the USA DD in november 2015, despite being something major.

Maybe they hadn't made that distinction (USA with 4 + 1 + 1) in Nov 2015, maybe then it was 3 + 1 + 1, but easier for them to get the first + 1 (instead of hiding it behind a NF that requires 75% world tension (so Late '39 in most semi-historical games).

 

[xtfoster]

I think from the "sandbox" point of view it also doesn't make sense. People are quick to claim its a sandbox not a historical simulation when it suits their point, but if it is a sandbox then all nations should be capable of a similar end game. I like it over-all, mods can always remove it if it imbalances things in extended time-lines etc.

Sandbox doesn't mean every country can do everything, and all countries are equal.

 

[fredgiblet]

Im no apologist for the soviets. As far as Im concerned they were as bad as the nazi's. But the idea that the Soviet Invasion of Manchuria was a last minute land grab, just isnt fact.

I would argue that the two things aren't opposed. You said yourself that they launched ahead of schedule. Stalin knew we had nukes and I think there's a good chance they knew we'd dropped the first one. Why did they launch the invasion then when they had months before they were expected to? Were they rushing to help the US? It's plausible but I kinda doubt it, they had little incentive to intervene just on our behalf.

It's more likely, to me, that they chose that time because they knew the war in the Pacific was winding down and wanted to get in before the Japanese surrendered. If they declare war after Japan surrenders then that wouldn't go over well with us, if they declare war before they surrender then they can get a place at the peace conference "As a man that has fought" and claim territory they weren't really entitled to based on actual involvement.

I'm open to the possibility that Stalin was legitimately concerned with aiding us, but I would need some evidence as that isn't exactly in character for him.

 

[Marfach]

Sandbox doesn't mean every country can do everything, and all countries are equal.

Sandbox implies that nations should have the same potential, it is not a sandbox game, it is a historical grand strategy, I'm in support of the extra research slot, but it contradicts the "sandbox" excuses for perceived short-comings in the game design like the poorly scaled economies.

 

[Pandoricus]

a couple. Clearly you have no idea how many planes Germany developed during the war.

Germany's wartime research in plane research was severely hindered by favoritism. The new head of production stunted Germany's air campaign. Watch this:

it is really good.

Edit: Also this video should help with other things...

 

[ranger0]

We are talking about resources... americans got all british secrets for free, plus so many scientists from all over the world. Imagine if they actually had to fight a real war on their doorstep (like Germany/France/USSR) if they were invaded by Canada or Mexico or something (ok thats difficult to imagine, but still)

i will point out that the us had plans for both invading Canada (war plan red) and Mexico (war plan green) now how successful those plans may have been is another story but they where planing for them.

 

[Athan.]

Just to reiterate what someone mentioned earlier, to even start the National Focus tree with the 6th Research Slot (Issue War Bonds), the US needs to be at war with a major. Even then, they will need to complete six focuses to activate that slot. So assuming 70 days per focus and the US not focusing on anything else, that means they can unlock the 6th Research Slot approximately 420 days after the war with the major begins (assuming I got the math right).

 

[fredgiblet]

And that's assuming they do no other focuses in the meantime.

 

[Heatth]

Just to reiterate what someone mentioned earlier, to even start the National Focus tree with the 6th Research Slot (Issue War Bonds), the US needs to be at war with a major. Even then, they will need to complete six focuses to activate that slot. So assuming 70 days per focus and the US not focusing on anything else, that means they can unlock the 6th Research Slot approximately 420 days after the war with the major begins (assuming I got the math right).

On top of that, I doubt they can even get their 5th right away. The wiki doesn't have that information (and the tree is a bit confusing), but it seems to me they can't have it until they get in the war either. Which means that, until almost 1942, they will be running with 4 slots, while every other major else will have 5 by then. That explain why the devs felt they needed a 6th slot. Also, note that they can get the 5th a lot earlier if they are a non democracy (as they will just go to war), but then they won't have the 6th.

 

[scroggin]

Just to reiterate what someone mentioned earlier, to even start the National Focus tree with the 6th Research Slot (Issue War Bonds), the US needs to be at war with a major. Even then, they will need to complete six focuses to activate that slot. So assuming 70 days per focus and the US not focusing on anything else, that means they can unlock the 6th Research Slot approximately 420 days after the war with the major begins (assuming I got the math right).

I dont think that is ahistorical. The USA will enter the war with tech levels lower than Germany and the need to devote more research to the navy will keep the USA's land tech levels below Germany. Tech levels in game should be close to where they were in real life.

 

[skiesofred]

For instance

I think there is a mistake in the wiki made by someone like you who thinks a beaker picture is automatically an additional research slot.

The Scientist Haven focus is probably science related, but not an extra research slot as the other one is clearly labelled "extra research slot".

Italy has a beaker over the focus "Treaty with Germany" it gives research bonuses but not extra slots

 

[Athan.]

On top of that, I doubt they can even get their 5th right away. The wiki doesn't have that information (and the tree is a bit confusing), but it seems to me they can't have it until they get in the war either. Which means that, until almost 1942, they will be running with 4 slots, while every other major else will have 5 by then. That explain why the devs felt they needed a 6th slot. Also, note that they can get the 5th a lot earlier if they are a non democracy (as they will just go to war), but then they won't have the 6th.

Yea I was going to bring up the 5th slot as well, but wasn't sure the exact prerequisites. I was watching a USA stream in which it looked like that slot is tied to World Tension rather than direct war, so I think you can get that one a little earlier if the world is on fire.

I dont think that is ahistorical. The USA will enter the war with tech levels lower than Germany and the need to devote more research to the navy will keep the USA's land tech levels below Germany. Tech levels in game should be close to where they were in real life.

Agreed, I like the setup. The US has a very slow start with all the maluses, but can really shine late game. Is it in time to make a difference? That depends on the state of the rest of the world wars.

 

[GermanPower]

I like it. I assume other nations get a bunch of research help via the focus tree besides slots. I know Germany does. I assume the US tree is about awaking the sleeping giant.