Urbanization

[LordBhaal]

Just one small request for the developers:

If I start dumping IC/Factories (can't remember what's it called in HoI 4) in a province, can the map update the province to an urban setting? Maybe when it contains the maximum number of factories in the province?

Oh ya, one more request:

If in my travels, I encounter an impassable forest province, that I can't upgrade the infrastructure, please allow me to send in my bulldozer battalion and mow it down!
Then allow me to build infrastructure.

Thanks!

 

[Bargey]

Well, for urbanization you also have to factor in Population, which is something Hearts of Iron 4 does not have considering this screenshot of the map:

However, it could work for something like Victoria 3, but that has not been officially announced yet (But we all know it's coming)

Oh, and considering HoI has a time frame of 12 years, there can be no real urbanization in such a short time

 

[Dalwin]

Before someone else gets around to it, I will get the stock answer out of the way that comes up in every urban terrain thread:

Provinces are very big and not even the largest cities come close to being that big.

Frankly the decision on which major urban areas to count as urban terrain and which not to count that way is one of the many tricky decisions that makes developing a map for a game like this much more complicated than some people seem to think it is.

 

[Ikarases]

Before someone else gets around to it, I will get the stock answer out of the way that comes up in every urban terrain thread:

Provinces are very big and not even the largest cities come close to being that big.

Frankly the decision on which major urban areas to count as urban terrain and which not to count that way is one of the many tricky decisions that makes developing a map for a game like this much more complicated than some people seem to think it is.

I think the reason why some provinces have "urban" terrain is that fighting outside of that area would be... untactical. I guess nobody expects Paris to be a chunk of land with 30*35 km of buildings, even more 75 years ago

 

[Darkath]

Well any province that host a major city (ie administrative/economic/industrial center) ought to get an urban terrain, because the city was often what was fought over in those case. All capital cities should be urban.

As for the IC i think it should be the other way around : you should only be able to build it in cities. It makes no sense to have a shipyard or an industrial complex in the middle of the mountains or wheat fields.

 

[LarryLeica]

It makes no sense to have a shipyard or an industrial complex in the middle of the mountains or wheat fields.

Apart from those times when industrial complexes were built in the mountains or underground as they were considered more defensible than having them in urbanised areas. Look at the German late-war factory building, USSR moving it's industry etc etc...

 

[Stafroty]

how about having these cities in corner of many provinces and as a its own little province? Controlling it means also that you own the junction of roads and railroads as well.

 

[ringhloth]

how about having these cities in corner of many provinces and as a its own little province? Controlling it means also that you own the junction of roads and railroads as well.

I'm fine with the current HoI3 model. While the city might not have been that large, the outlying portions of it were mostly undefendable plains, and the defenders would have withdrawn to the city pretty quickly. However, were the attacker to move into those plains, he would have almost certainly been under small arms fire or small artillery fire, so combat would have ensued.

 

[Liquid Sky]

Defenders don't withdraw into the city...the city is a death trap. They withdraw to a line. For every Stalingrad there are many more Paris' where the city is just abandoned.

 

[Darkath]

Defenders don't withdraw into the city...the city is a death trap. They withdraw to a line. For every Stalingrad there are many more Paris' where the city is just abandoned.

Paris in 1940 is a special case, nobody wanted to damage the city.

 

[Pennuto]

Sure, also rome. But tactically the siege is wrong, in the moving warfare i should cut the logistic line, then who cares the defenders trapped, they starved, i take the city in a second time when i have all the logistic nodes in my hands.
If i stay trapped in a city i am useless. Reach the defensive line, refurbish, search a weakness in the front, then retake ( destroy ) the nodes ( gasoil, food, etc etc ).

 

[Porkman]

Sure, also rome. But tactically the siege is wrong, in the moving warfare i should cut the logistic line, then who cares the defenders trapped, they starved, i take the city in a second time when i have all the logistic nodes in my hands.
If i stay trapped in a city i am useless. Reach the defensive line, refurbish, search a weakness in the front, then retake ( destroy ) the nodes ( gasoil, food, etc etc ).

Surrounding a city and waiting for it to fall was certainly tried in a few places, but the problem with doing that repeatedly is two fold, 1) cities were nodes for the rail network. 2) surrounding a city increases the amount of troops required geometrically.

So if I'm the Germans approaching Smolensk from the west, I decide not to attack the city directly and instead go for the surround.

First problem, it takes a lot more troops to surround a city then attack directly. So what would be an attack front of 4 miles on the west becomes a circle with a radius of 5 miles around the city. That means, as the attacker, I have to man a front that is now 5 miles x 2π = 31 miles long around the city. Since this is the frontline, the eastern hemsisphere of that circle not only has to be strong facing towards Smolensk, but also outward facing East. So now I have 40,000 troops East of the city, some facing west to keep the troops in the city from breaking out, some facing East to keep the rest of the Soviets from attacking into and relieving the city.

But those 40,000 troops need supplies... Unfortunately, the rails I need to ship supplies to them all run through the center of Smolensk. So my bold move to cut off the supplies to Smolensk is successful, but, by bypassing the city, I've made it so fuel, food, and ammunition has no way to get to my forces.

There's a reason that the Germans attacked cities even knowing how bad urban warfare was.

 

[unmerged(14719)]

Would be nice to build up a city, fortify it, destroy it, repair it and have it reflected in the map.

 

[rongyuyao]

The strategic bombing system in HOI3 in my opinion was a bit oversimplified.
For example, if you drop an atomic bomb on an city with an IC cap of 8, it will recover all of it within four months :ninja: .
Also, any divisions defending the city will remain mostly unharmed for some reason.