Urban Provinces

[unmerged(10750)]

I was bored, so I went through and found all the provinces marked "Urban". Here they are - I'm sure they'll provide fodder for debates.

USA

Boston
New York
Newark
Philadelphia
Washington, D.C.
Pittsburgh
Detroit
Chicago

China

Nanjing
Suzhou
Shanghai
Beiping

USSR

Kiev
Leningrad
Moscow
Stalingrad

Germany

Essen
Hamburg
Berlin

UK

London
Birmingham
Hong Kong

Poland

Warsaw

Spain

Madrid

And that's it, at least in the demo.

Anything you think has been left out?

 

[ashbery76]

Constantinople,Caen.Hmm, that's it.

 

[Black Lotus]

Wasn't the capital of Hungry Urban?

 

[unmerged(10750)]

Wasn't the capital of Hungry Urban?

Budapest? It's not, at least in the demo. I don't think it was in HoI1, either, but I could be wrong.

 

[Black Lotus]

Budapest? It's not, at least in the demo. I don't think it was in HoI1, either, but I could be wrong.

I'm thinking of Core, it was Urban there. My fault

 

[Exterous]

Those all make pretty good sense, but i wonder about the west coast of the US. San Fransisco maybe?

And, if Madrid, then should Paris and Rome be included? Thoughts.....

 

[Chris8b]

Those all make pretty good sense, but i wonder about the west coast of the US. San Fransisco maybe?

Depends on the size of the province and what area it encompasses. While the city itself is definitely urban in the time period, the surrounding area (silicon valley, east bay outside of Oakland, and the north bay area) was fairly undeveloped.

-C

 

[Vissarion]

Yeah, most of the urban provinces are rather small, so other definately urban cities like LA doesn't really count because the province also consists of a large area around the city.

 

[Rey]

Paris should be urban

 

[Black Lotus]

Paris should be urban

I argee, the French retreated out of Paris to avoid making it a battleground, so maybe there should be an event for France if the Germans are approching to either retreat, or to stay and fight in an urban Paris.

 

[unmerged(29126)]

I believe that was one of the gripes of NOT giving Paris urban terrain status in HOI1.

Paris was behind a bunch of rivers, add urban terrain to that and an A.I. Germany could have severe problems beating the French or even getting the Vichy event (which requires Paris to be occupied). And that then could put a cramp on a semi-historical aggressive German A.I. making it less of a challenge to an Allied human player.

I dunno if terrain can be changed through events ...

 

[unmerged(25355)]

I agree with Paris, Rome, Istanbul, Cairo, Jerusalem, assuming the provinces are about the size of the city. What about Danzig? I don't know enough details about the city, but I think the province would be mostly the city. Amsterdam was in HoI 1 (or maybe in CORE).

 

[Usually_Insane]

if someone makes a battlescenario based on market-garden, i'd assume arnhem will become urban. I wonder if it's possible to change province terrain in specific battlescenarios. I wonder if the AI understands paradropping now?

 

[Kriegsspieler]

Look at your HOI files. Terrain is moddable. Ya don't like the fact that Paris isn't urban -- change it!

 

[GrimReaper]

Does Baghdad fit the premises? Or was it too little back then?

 

[unmerged(23228)]

Paris should be urban

No Paris should NOT be urban.

Becouse? its how the citys is built and how hard it is to fight in it that make the diffrence.

When paris got rebuilt they built it with some rules

Wide bullevard, max 4 floors and so on. Its fairly easy to fight in even with tanks. So the "urban" has to go...

Same for alot of the others as "paris" dont just stand for the city itself but from the province (area) around it.

So for a province to be urban it has to be a wery big city/citys that also makes defencive stands easy and hard for tanks to fight in. (thats what the "urban" give u for peneltis/pros).

Sorry for the bad english but I think Im pretty clear on what Im going at

 

[unmerged(10750)]

When I think of an "urban" province, I think of an area primarily devoted to heavy industry - very highly developed, with more "concrete and steel" than trees and grass.

While San Francisco, Rome, Paris, and Constantinople are definitely cities, they are in a different category than places like Pittsburgh or Stalingrad.

Madrid is an exception to the rule, but I think Madrid got an exception due to their historical role as a highly-fortified city that resisted capture all throughout the Spanish Civil War.

 

[unmerged(31656)]

I think that Paris and Rome are not urban because fighting didn't occur in those cities, for the most part. I believe this is what I heard the final statement from the devs was but I am not entirely sure. Although this may sound "restrictive" considering you could easily counter that they could have fought in those cities I do not think this is too bad. I mean I would much rather the cities to be relatively rare, as they are now. Cities should be special, with the ability to delay and damage the attacker and should be sparse enough to make them very important to the attacker and defenders strategy.

 

[Old Joe]

i think such determination must be and historical somehow, if any tough or deciseve or just well known battles happening within some cities in game period it certanly should be urban, otherwise its just assumption or balance matter, like those american ones, such argument of city planning is not a point, it can be discussed and compared eternally, doesnt fe. wasington have similar restriction for hight of buildings, and surely valleys much wider there than in paris or any european city, ..i wondering for some hoi3 where will be exact determination of urban for battling, some city spot depending on its density, and country area as usual provinces, but oh

 

[GrimReaper]

I think that Paris and Rome are not urban because fighting didn't occur in those cities, for the most part. I believe this is what I heard the final statement from the devs was but I am not entirely sure. Although this may sound "restrictive" considering you could easily counter that they could have fought in those cities I do not think this is too bad. I mean I would much rather the cities to be relatively rare, as they are now. Cities should be special, with the ability to delay and damage the attacker and should be sparse enough to make them very important to the attacker and defenders strategy.

That's the important part; fighting could have occurred.

No fighting between landunits occurred in London, Leningrad or Moscow for example, yet they have Urban terrain.