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Monphat

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So, I am playing Ironman Charlemagne game, currently in mid-900's, trying to keep my megablob HRE which includes 10 kingdoms of which 9 are de-jure part of Empire (if you are interested: West Francia, Middle Francia, Eastern Francia, Frisia, Saxony, Italy, Burgundy, Acquitaine, Bretagne) + 1 external (Pomerania) somewhat stable. I've managed to avoid gavelkind splits for now and recently I've finally solved vassal limit problem when viceroyalties were enabled.

My ultimate plan is to make all 10 kingdoms primogeniture so HRE would turn into a very stable realm which would be truly unstoppable in the late game. In order to do this I've steadily increased crown authority in both Empire and individual kingdoms. I turned HRE premogeniture somewhat long time ago, so I moved on to succesion law changes in each of the 10 kingdoms. However, I've encountered one problem: when I turned the first kingdom, Saxony, primogeniture and got the usual malus from Saxon vassals, I've noticed that this malus has been assigned to all HRE vassals. This means that in order to avoid widespread hatred towards me, I'd have to change 8 consecutive Emperors (each ruling for more than 10 years) to finally get rid of the gavelkind.

On the one hand, it is presenting a great challenge for a player, making blobbing and stability maintenance much harder. On the other hand, kingdom-level succesion laws should be just like any other kindom-level crown laws: local. When you increase the crown authority in individual kingdoms the opinion malus among vassals is contained within that kingdom, but with succession laws you are hit hard all across the map with Acquitaine Dukes being as angry as Saxon ones, which makes no sense, really.

Now, the question: is this mechanic legitimate from your point of view?
I suggest lowering the opinion malus for succession law change outside the kingdom to at least -10 (from -20) or preferrably -5 points.
 
Last edited:

panionios

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Did you create/inherit/usurp all these Kingdoms? I also like creating all Kingdoms (and keeping them myself - it keeps my vassals split into many different factions, aka divide and rule) but only do so after I have my Empire Laws at primo and high/absolute CA, so that the newly created Kingdoms are also primo and at high/absolute CA (and then lower CA or maintain it at absolute CA if I don't want them to expand into other realms).

-20 is fine. Do two at a time. The opinion penalty lasts for a decade.
 

Kumicho

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Sounds like a bug. Vassals should only be upset if they have any holdings in the du jure kingdom where the law was changed. So Italy shouldn't care unless it had a holding in du jure Saxony...
 

Monphat

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Did you create/inherit/usurp all these Kingdoms? I also like creating all Kingdoms (and keeping them myself - it keeps my vassals split into many different factions, aka divide and rule) but only do so after I have my Empire Laws at primo and high/absolute CA, so that the newly created Kingdoms are also primo and at high/absolute CA (and then lower CA or maintain it at absolute CA if I don't want them to expand into other realms).

Yeah, I've created all of them (aside from Pomerania) as Charlemagne so I would get nice and swell de-jure borders for HRE in case someone would manage to escape the platinum blob. Since it was early IX century, I was not able to force high CA/primogeniture at that point and my plan was to slowly enforce primogeniture in all kingdoms individually because gavelkind is as broken as ever.

-20 is fine. Do two at a time. The opinion penalty lasts for a decade.

Yeah, I figured that would be easier, since -40 is tolerable as long as you pay your bri... gifts to vassals + use spymaster and chancellor properly.

Sounds like a bug. Vassals should only be upset if they have any holdings in the du jure kingdom where the law was changed. So Italy shouldn't care unless it had a holding in du jure Saxony...

Yeah, just reported it: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ge-in-another-kingdom&p=18343179#post18343179