Upgrading naval units

[palumbro]

Hey there!

Ok I have honestly no idea how to do this and I don't even know if it is actually possible.

How the hell do I upgrade naval units? All infantry (+ brigade) division and aircrafts are upgraded automatically. On the econ tab I set the IC to the max for upgrading, then why on earth my bloody naval units won't upgrade!

Is it normal? To me it sounds a bit silly that to update your entire navy by buying new units, when you don't have to do it for your airforce.
It's like someone has decided "Ok, we need a F14. Lets take that 1920 biplane and lets stick some metal to it. That should work just fine! But not for the navy! If you want the USS Nimitz you have to build it from scratch!"

Now, all aircrafts and ships should be build from zero in reality, you don't take something old and just "upgrade" (a part from some minor upgrades).

I mean, it make sense that if I want a new modern navy I have to go to the drawing board and start building everything from scratch, but then why doesn't the same thing apply for airplanes?

Am I an idiot (probably) and doing it wrong?

 

[^_AC_^]

It's always been like that: aeroplanes can upgrade to new models, ships don't. Sorry.

 

[MartinBG]

The logic is that all naval units in the game except destroyer and submarine flotillas represent single ships while land and air units contain many more or less independent elements that can be replaced with better one on steps (upgrade from one model to another).

 

[palumbro]

I do understand that if you are talking about infantry, after all you jsut have to issue new equipment. But I don't really understand it for the airforce. How do you upgrade an airplane step by step? Even if you are talking about squadrons. Sure you can replace just one or two unit with new model and keep the old one in the squadron, but then you really aren't upgrading the whole thing, just bits.

Is that right? Anywho.. is there a way to change this? Are there some values I have to change to make so that naval unit auto-upgrade? And viceversa, make so that air units won't auto-upgrade.

If this is not the right section to ask this, I'm sorry

 

[jacco]

Every unit can be set individually if you want it to upgrade or not, there is a button for that in the bottom of the unit screen.
Just check this for all your air units and they will not upgrade anymore.
Naval units can be upgraded in Hearts of Iron 3 only.

 

[palumbro]

I see, so there is no possible way for me to upgrade the navy.

Well thank a lot for the info! This was kinda driving me mad hehe

 

[PEP]

Another thing about upgrades I don't really understand:

Why aren't obsolete divisions and brigades updated to the most recent ones? For instance if 1936 infanterie divisions are available why should a 1926 division becomes a 1931 divison before being updated to the 1936 model? Is there a logical explanation I don't understand? It seems odd that a governement would issue obsolete weapons and vehicules to update divisions...

EDIT: I apologize if this isn't the right place to ask but since this thread deals with upgrades it seemed like the right place to ask a question that in my opinion doesn't require a new thread.

 

[Gort11]

The logic is that all naval units in the game except destroyer and submarine flotillas represent single ships while land and air units contain many more or less independent elements that can be replaced with better one on steps (upgrade from one model to another).

I have a request along these lines - can you set ships to be upgradeable, but set the cost and time of the upgrade to be equal to the cost and time of producing a new ship? Changes nothing game-balance wise, but it does make it easier on me to keep my navy up-to-date interface-wise.

 

[^_AC_^]

I see, so there is no possible way for me to upgrade the navy.

Well thank a lot for the info! This was kinda driving me mad hehe

It is possible to modify this and make ships upgrade, but it requires a long time.
For example open Darkest Hour\Mods\Darkest Hour Full\db\units\divisions\battlecruiser.txt
If you want to make model 0 upgrade to model 1, simply write battlecruiser = 1 in the description of model 0, like this:

model = {
cost = 2
buildtime = 1050
defaultorganisation = 20
morale = 20
manpower = 1
maxspeed = 18
surfacedetectioncapability = 1
airdetectioncapability = 1
subdetectioncapability = 0
visibility = 80
seadefence = 8
airdefence = 1
seaattack = 12
subattack = 0
convoyattack = 12
airattack = 1
shorebombardment = 5
transportcapability = 0
range = 4000
supplyconsumption = 0.4
fuelconsumption = 0.8
distance = 0.3
battlecruiser = 1
}

Then edit the description for model 1 and write "battlecruiser = 2" and so on and so forth for each model and each unit that you want to modify.

 

[^_AC_^]

I have a request along these lines - can you set ships to be upgradeable, but set the cost and time of the upgrade to be equal to the cost and time of producing a new ship? Changes nothing game-balance wise, but it does make it easier on me to keep my navy up-to-date interface-wise.

I think you have to insert the following lines in each model:

upgrade_time_factor = 1.0
upgrade_cost_factor = 1.0

I'm not 100% sure, so try with one first.

 

[MartinBG]

Another thing about upgrades I don't really understand:

Why aren't obsolete divisions and brigades updated to the most recent ones? For instance if 1936 infanterie divisions are available why should a 1926 division becomes a 1931 divison before being updated to the 1936 model? Is there a logical explanation I don't understand? It seems odd that a governement would issue obsolete weapons and vehicules to update divisions...

EDIT: I apologize if this isn't the right place to ask but since this thread deals with upgrades it seemed like the right place to ask a question that in my opinion doesn't require a new thread.

Here is the logic behind:
A division is composed by many components (regiments if you want). Each of those have equipment that can be upgraded. In game this is simplified by introducing of models.
A model "1" have all components at level 1, model "2" have some components of level 1 and some of level 2, model "3" have some components of level 3, some of level 2 and even maybe some still at level 0 and so on.
This is taken into account in upgrade cost and time too, especially when upgrading a very obsolete model (models 2 levels older then the currently researched one gets 1/2 reduction in both time and cost).
Upgrading from level 1 to level 4 should cost about the same (in IC days) if you upgrade directly to level 4 or going all the levels up (2-3-4), but the second approach is more logical (see above) and also is more practical if you're at war as your units will benefit from the investment you're doing in upgrade faster.

 

[palumbro]

Here is the logic behind:
A division is composed by many components (regiments if you want). Each of those have equipment that can be upgraded. In game this is simplified by introducing of models.
A model "1" have all components at level 1, model "2" have some components of level 1 and some of level 2, model "3" have some components of level 3, some of level 2 and even maybe some still at level 0 and so on.
This is taken into account in upgrade cost and time too, especially when upgrading a very obsolete model (models 2 levels older then the currently researched one gets 1/2 reduction in both time and cost).
Upgrading from level 1 to level 4 should cost about the same (in IC days) if you upgrade directly to level 4 or going all the levels up (2-3-4), but the second approach is more logical (see above) and also is more practical if you're at war as your units will benefit from the investment you're doing in upgrade faster.

It represents the fact that you can't really upgrade the whole division in one second, but you start upgrading regiment by regiment. Upgrading a LEVEL 2 unit to LEVEL 3, even if you have the technology for LEVEL 4, represents the fact that only some regiments have been issued the new equipment. Is that right?

It is possible to modify this and make ships upgrade, but it requires a long time.
For example open Darkest Hour\Mods\Darkest Hour Full\db\units\divisions\battlecruiser.txt
If you want to make model 0 upgrade to model 1, simply write battlecruiser = 1 in the description of model 0, like this:

/cut

Then edit the description for model 1 and write "battlecruiser = 2" and so on and so forth for each model and each unit that you want to modify.

Would I still have the button ingame to decide whether to upgrade the unit or not?

The reason why I'd like to change this is because I'd hate to lose the experience gained. After building a new ship I would use the same crew (or same plus some new recruits). They are operating a new ship but they still know how to fight. And besides, I wouldn't put in command of a battleship an officer who came just straight out of the academy, but someone who has some experience.
The price would for upragding would be the same as building a new one, same IC, and to justify the manpower used I would say that I'm using some new fresh men.

Also the fact that you want to upgrade your navy, means that you want to get rid of the old stuff. You can always buy new ship and keep the old one, but what if you want to build new ships and get rid of the old ones? That is were the upgrade button would come in.

Would this make sense in reality?

If someone can tell me if this would work and make sense I might actually start working on it.

 

[^_AC_^]

As far as I know the upgrade button should be there.

 

[Gort11]

The reason why I'd like to change this is because I'd hate to lose the experience gained. After building a new ship I would use the same crew (or same plus some new recruits). They are operating a new ship but they still know how to fight. And besides, I wouldn't put in command of a battleship an officer who came just straight out of the academy, but someone who has some experience.
The price would for upragding would be the same as building a new one, same IC, and to justify the manpower used I would say that I'm using some new fresh men.

You make a very good point - new ships come with crews with no experience. I suppose in reality you would lose some experience from your crew because they would have to be using new guns and equipment which they don't have experience with, so perhaps units should lose a bit of experience when being upgraded - something like 20% would seem reasonable to me.

 

[palumbro]

You make a very good point - new ships come with crews with no experience. I suppose in reality you would lose some experience from your crew because they would have to be using new guns and equipment which they don't have experience with, so perhaps units should lose a bit of experience when being upgraded - something like 20% would seem reasonable to me.

I thought the same. Is it possible? My modding skills are close to nothing, still I can do a few basic things hehe
Enabling the upgrade for ships shouldn't be too hard, just a bit long. I would have no idea how to lose that 20% experience though.

 

[gradenko_2000]

Another thing about upgrades I don't really understand:

Why aren't obsolete divisions and brigades updated to the most recent ones? For instance if 1936 infanterie divisions are available why should a 1926 division becomes a 1931 divison before being updated to the 1936 model? Is there a logical explanation I don't understand? It seems odd that a governement would issue obsolete weapons and vehicules to update divisions...

EDIT: I apologize if this isn't the right place to ask but since this thread deals with upgrades it seemed like the right place to ask a question that in my opinion doesn't require a new thread.

I believe it has to with the way the game is coded, in that it has to pass through the intervening models even if your latest model is already 2 or more steps ahead. To counteract this somewhat, the IC and production time savings you get is cumulative per model you need to catch up with.