UPDATED Tier List: All 107 Doctrines (Now with Anomaly Doctrines)

UPDATED Tier List: All 107 Doctrines (Now with Anomaly Doctrines)

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TreborTheTall

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Hello again, my friends,

I got another tier list for you all. This one is for the updated doctrine tier list, which has all 107 doctrines that are currently in the game (as of 6/23/2020).


FULL DISCLAIMER: My tier list was put together using my preferences and playstyles that I have developed over the past 9 months of playing planetfall. I have a lot more experience with some doctrines than others, and I did ask others a few questions about the doctrines that I am less familiar with. If you have any strong opinions about where they doctrines should go, please keep that in mind, and know that this is a general guide to help new players understand why I choose to use some doctrines over others. With that being said, I want to encourage the discussion of my tier list, so please feel free to let me know what you would change in the comments down below. Likewise, if you do agree with my assessment, then I would find it helpful to hear those thoughts as well.

Tierlist.UpdatedJune2020.jpg


If you want to see my last thread on the topic with the outdated tier list, here is a link:



For the Invasion Edition, I added 10 extra doctrines to my complete tier list: 6 Shakarn Doctrines, 1 Therian Doctrine, and 3 Anomaly Doctrines.

In this post I'll focus on the 3 anomaly doctrines, as they are pretty hard to find in game, and I missed them in my outdated "complete doctrine tier list" even though they were in the game before the Invasion expansion and the Diplodocus patch.


1592465644896.png



Modified A.I.V.A. -- (B tier)
In the Valentine Manor Anomaly, take the 3rd option, "A.I.V.A. could contribute to our economics. Link her into our network", in the 3rd step out of 3 steps.
This doctrine gives a significant boost to your economy.

1592920017745.png


Blessing of the Burning Emperor -- (C tier, requires synergy to be viable)
In the House of the Emperors Anomaly, take the 2nd option, "Bow to the Emperor Khansu, grandfather of the Promethean", in the 3rd step out of 5 steps (you only get access to this option when using Promethean commander).
This doctrine makes doomsday structure cheaper.

1592920224063.png


Architect’s Touch -- (A tier, even if you are playing as kirko or sharkarn, which can build mech and cyborg unit after they conquer a colony of another race)
In the House of the Emperors Anomaly, take the 1st option, "Your work can serve the union's rebirth.. if you join us", in the 5th step out of 5 steps.
This doctrine gives a strong boost to your combat efficiency/tankiness.

1592920340332.png
 
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coodav

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Wow, the Black Market from Therians is listed here as D tier. I must assume that the rank order is completely opinion, as that is probably the most OP doctrine in the game. It is so horrifically busted in most maps that it is hard to believe.

Try this:

Make a large or huge map. Put 4+ NPC factions on it, giving you quests, and tell me how this is D. For me, that mod gave me like 1000 cosmite by turn 50 and BUCKETS of energy. Seriously, it single-handedly outfitted my entire army.

If you play only campaign, and have 1 or 2 factions giving you quests, this is terrible. Otherwise, S+ tier, no doubt at all. Mandatory.

Edit:

And is that negotiators in the D tier? WTF game is being played here? That is a 20% discount to NPC sales. That is like completing an additional quest every 5, which is freaking huge. And how does this even make sense with Dwelling Intimidation being put on S tier, with 1/2 of the advantage? Dwelling is a 10% reduction, and negotiation is a 20% reduction. What in the world is happening here?

Guys, it would appear that the player here really hasn't evaluated the doctrines that thoroughly. I am absolutely certain that this is ranked by basic visceral feel, and not much past that. Let me explain what I am talking about:

D Tier Negotiators give a 20% discount to purchases. Dwelling Intimidation (somehow s-tier) is 10%. When you are playing in a map where there are lots of NPCs, you are likely to be at war with them and/or get lots of quests. That is a TON of infuence. Even early game, you can combine the two, get a bonkers discount on units for 1 turn, then swap the doctrines back for the 10 turns between purchases. That means you have 90% uptime on construction-related doctrines, but in that 1-2 turns you need to switch over to purchases, instead of 200 influence, you basically have 285. THAT IS KINDA CRAZY. And those units build in your capital with all of your capital bonuses applied. That set of doctrines can WIN YOU THE GAME. It is S-tier for sure but ONLY if you have enough NPC factions. So this is not reliable on 1/2 of the maps you play.

Edit 2:

Could you PLEASE put a legend together? I don't know all of the symbols, and I have put a lot of hours into this game. Thanks!
 
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TreborTheTall

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@coodav the legend is in the thread that I linked to.

So as far as I know the Black Market Connections only gives you extra cosmite, which is not worth the doctrine slot in my opinion. Most items will only give you 3 cosmite per item that you sell, so I don't really see it being helpful unless you play on some very unorthodox settings. If you get to the point where you can sell 10 or so items, you probably have already won the match, you just need to send your armies around to sweep the remaining cities. I'm pretty comfortable leaving it as D tier.

Negotiators is far more debatable, but compared to Dwelling Intimidation, it just isn't as applicable to as many strategies. Dwelling intimidation makes sites easier to buy off of NPC factions, giving you more influence to spend on other things that turn. No waiting required. But if you just want to be evil, then that faction reward reduction is there for you, and you can negotiate peace for less influence. If you cycle your doctrines correctly and play on easier settings, I could see negotiators being better, but I doubt most players play that way. Waiting to buy units means you can't move them to colonies that need the extra defense, or use them to add to existing stacks. Negotiator also come much later in the game, require a friendship relationship with an NPC faction. To be fair it should have the "better with synergy icon" on Negotiator, as it is competitive with enough investment. It just isn't viable unless you really focus in on it. Dwelling intimidation is almost guaranteed to help you out (unless you turn off NPC factions).
 
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coodav

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@coodav the legend is in the thread that I linked to.

So as far as I know the Black Market Connections only gives you extra cosmite, which is not worth the doctrine slot in my opinion. Most items will only give you 3 cosmite per item that you sell, so I don't really see it being helpful unless you play on some very unorthodox settings. If you get to the point where you can sell 10 or so items, you probably have already won the match, you just need to send your armies around to sweep the remaining cities. I'm pretty comfortable leaving it as D tier.

Negotiators is far more debatable, but compared to Dwelling Intimidation, it just isn't as applicable to as many strategies. Dwelling intimidation makes sites easier to buy off of NPC factions, giving you more influence to spend on other things that turn. No waiting required. But if you just want to be evil, then that faction reqrd reduction is there for you, and you can negotiate peace for less influence. If you cycle your doctrines correctly and play on easier settings, I could see negotiators being better, but I doubt most players play that way. Waiting to buy units means you can't move them to colonies that need the extra defense, or use them to add to existing stacks. Negotiator also come much later in the game, require a friendship relationship with an NPC faction. To be fair it should have the "better with synergy icon" on Negotiator, as it is competitive with enough investment. It just isn't viable unless you really focus in on it. Dwelling intimidation is almost guaranteed to help you out (unless you turn of NPC factions).
That is not how it works. It gives you cosmite based on the value of the victory reward completed, from what I can tell. That means there are some instances where you can get as much as 40 cosmite in a single encounter, plus like 1/3 more energy ON TOP. If you have multiple quests, landmarks, pirate coves, and other such things going off in 1 turn, then you could probably regularly net over 100 cosmite PER TURN with this doctrine. That is IN ADDITION to the quest reward itself. With that, you don't have to worry about how much you make, whatever your cosmite income is is an afterthought.

What you just said though is telling. The bottom line is that you don't really know. This means that you are speculating. That isn't bad, but you have to know your experiences are limited. I gotta say, this list is fantastic for a start. But I am telling you that it is busted. You may really think about that. Try putting some numbers to it, and think again.

Edit:

And negotiators can be obtained by around turn 15. This is early game for certain. All you have to do is to make a defensive pact with a faction and buy like 4 units or something. I typically get Black Market or the energy scavenger doctrines with the quest reward, because you can do it so early. Seriously, this is basically it:

Turn 5-6 2nd quest done, I get the first quest reward which I believe is energy.
Turn 10-15, I get the 4th quest done, and buy the remaining 40-60 influence, unless my scouts found some relation rewards as pickups before then. I complete the quest, get the additional 40 influence (which means it was free), and buy the Wasteland Scavengers (Spacers doctrine) or Black Market (Therian Doctrie) instantly, because they are so... damn... busted....

But again, the issue is that you don't see the value of this with the same criteria. This does DOUBLE what the other does, and it is D. The weaker of the two is S, opposite ends of the spectrum. That makes precisely no sense. I personally believe that both of them are S, because together... goodness. And they can be hot-swapped ON TOP. This is absolutely bonkers. You get all of the advantages of both with none of the downside, except paying 100 energy every 10 turns to swap in and out.

Edit 2:

The Legend does not include these. I noticed that you put the names on the bottom (well done), but they still don't have the NPC ones available, I don't think. I will look again.
 
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coodav

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Another thing on Secret State, it is pretty clear that you don't play against a lot of AI opponents. You put this at C, but here is the gig. I play against 3-9 Insane AI to make it hard. They will ALWAYS have an infiltration centers in you, and even if you use sweeps every time it comes off cooldown, you will constantly be hit with enemy operations almost every turn. If you don't have Secret State, you lose the game, period. There is no possibility of you winning as far as I can tell, no matter what. You will be drug into war with all of the NPC factions you have on the map, as they will hit you with propaganda hacks, and you will never have another coin in your bank, as they will rob you every single turn 10 times. They cheat with operations SO BAD that they will spend 80 energy on an energy hack to get less than 80 back because so many are hacking you at once. The only way I can stop this is to put the hard hacks out of reach. That demands Secret State.

Bottom line: if you play with 3+ insane AI, Secret State is absolutely mandatory, period. I cannot see how you can get through a game without it. This isn't even S. It is required.
 

coodav

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I tell you man, I am looking at your list... oof. I think it is absolutely amazing what you did here, as you have done about 1,000X more than Paradox when you did this, but you need to have some guests on your podcast or something. This is not right.

Edit:

And do one for Amomolous Sites. If I could get a list of the quest chains and base rewards, you would be my honorary best friend.
 
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That is not how it works. It gives you cosmite based on the value of the victory reward completed, from what I can tell.
Black Market Connections:
"The Therians have shown you how to get better deals on the black market.

Gain an extra 15% of all <Energy> from selling rewards as <Cosmite>"

So are you trying to tell us that the description is entirely wrong?
Because if it is really giving you increased Energy and Cosmite, without you selling the Rewards as you claim, you should really submit a bug report.
 

coodav

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Black Market Connections:
"The Therians have shown you how to get better deals on the black market.

Gain an extra 15% of all <Energy> from selling rewards as <Cosmite>"

So are you trying to tell us that the description is entirely wrong?
Because if it is really giving you increased Energy and Cosmite, without you selling the Rewards as you claim, you should really submit a bug report.
Maybe. Here is what I am telling you. I got a victory reward, NOT quest reward of two vehicles, one was a truck and one of those stupid Tier 4 ones... the Imperial Tank, I think. I black marketed those and got like 300 energy and 40+ cosmite. And that wasn't all that uncommon. Didn't think twice either, because next to the hero mods I was using, none of this was worth it. They didn't compare even slightly.

That vehicle was particularly expensive, so I get it, that particular exchange may not be common, but getting 15-20 cosmite PER VICTORY is not that unusual. Look, try it yourself. Do it on a high NPC map - say 5+, just in case. You want to be hitting those quests like crazy. You will be deluged with cosmite and energy. You can outfit any army in the world with it.

Edit:

Let me set expectations real quick. When you are doing 1 quest per turn or two, early game, and not always with victory rewards, this won't be the best. At the mid and late-game, when you have 2-4 army stacks plowing through landmarks, sub-landmarks, quests, and victories on enemy NPC factions, I doubt there is another doctrine in the game better. This is absolute madness at that point.
 
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HousePet

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And yet you earlier said that this Doctrine gives more Energy, and that the bonuses were "IN ADDITION" to the Rewards.

Now you are saying that, you actually sold the Rewards. And that the Energy you got was actually the expected amount from selling T4 Rewards.
 

TreborTheTall

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Maybe. Here is what I am telling you. I got a victory reward, NOT quest reward of two vehicles, one was a truck and one of those stupid Tier 4 ones... the Imperial Tank, I think. I black marketed those and got like 300 energy and 40+ cosmite. And that wasn't all that uncommon. Didn't think twice either, because next to the hero mods I was using, none of this was worth it. They didn't compare even slightly.

That vehicle was particularly expensive, so I get it, that particular exchange may not be common, but getting 15-20 cosmite PER VICTORY is not that unusual. Look, try it yourself. Do it on a high NPC map - say 5+, just in case. You want to be hitting those quests like crazy. You will be deluged with cosmite and energy. You can outfit any army in the world with it.

Edit:

Let me set expectations real quick. When you are doing 1 quest per turn or two, early game, and not always with victory rewards, this won't be the best. At the mid and late-game, when you have 2-4 army stacks plowing through landmarks, sub-landmarks, quests, and victories on enemy NPC factions, I doubt there is another doctrine in the game better. This is absolute madness at that point.
Ok, I will admit I did not know that it applied to when you sell rewards from quests, so thank you fro brining that to my attention, but it looks like you won't be able to get that much cosmite off of it, especially when you compare the cosmite to the value of the rewards that you are selling. Building a vehicle from scratch usually costs 10 or 20 cosmite, and the ones you get from quest rewards are usually a bit better than the ones you can build. Selling the rewards still only seems like a good idea if you don't want one of the free units you get from a quest or if you are under 100 energy and have a negative energy income.

Also I do get cosmite when selling items from my arsenal, so that part of the description is accurate. There maybe more to it than I initially thoughts, but yeah, I have not been convinced that it is a competitive doctrine. Any human player would likely be able to rush you down if you dedicate your army stack to clearing out quests, and then you choose to give up those rewards for a tiny bit of extra resources. While 40 cosmite might feel like a lot, it is not that much in the late game. Also I just ran a few tests, and i don't think you get extra energy from selling rewards (although i'm not sure about this, I got a few results that indicate that you don't get any extra cosmite from selling the quest rewards with BMC active, and a result that indicates that you do). Even if you do get a bit of extra energy and cosmite, the boost seems negligible to me.

without BCM
1592957560763.png


with BCM
1592957603158.png
 

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TreborTheTall

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Another thing on Secret State, it is pretty clear that you don't play against a lot of AI opponents. You put this at C, but here is the gig. I play against 3-9 Insane AI to make it hard. They will ALWAYS have an infiltration centers in you, and even if you use sweeps every time it comes off cooldown, you will constantly be hit with enemy operations almost every turn. If you don't have Secret State, you lose the game, period. There is no possibility of you winning as far as I can tell, no matter what. You will be drug into war with all of the NPC factions you have on the map, as they will hit you with propaganda hacks, and you will never have another coin in your bank, as they will rob you every single turn 10 times. They cheat with operations SO BAD that they will spend 80 energy on an energy hack to get less than 80 back because so many are hacking you at once. The only way I can stop this is to put the hard hacks out of reach. That demands Secret State.

Bottom line: if you play with 3+ insane AI, Secret State is absolutely mandatory, period. I cannot see how you can get through a game without it. This isn't even S. It is required.
lol please watch a few of my playthrough on YT, and you will see how I play. I have started using Secret State a bit more recently, but I play on similar settings, on a medium map, as that is the default for the game, and what the devs most likely balanced the game for. Oh and I haven't lost a match that I was taking seriously/recording (i have lost one or two, where I was testing some strategies off camera), so i think I understand the AI fairly well.
 

coodav

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And yet you earlier said that this Doctrine gives more Energy, and that the bonuses were "IN ADDITION" to the Rewards.

Now you are saying that, you actually sold the Rewards. And that the Energy you got was actually the expected amount from selling T4 Rewards.
Look, here is exactly how it works. You get two rewards in several cases, for instance when you wipe out a pirate sector, you get a victory reward AND a quest reward. You sell the victory reward (which typically blows), and you get the following:

1. ALL energy is counted as part of the reward. So if you have 100 energy + something, it applies to the cosmite bonus.
2. ALL research and production is converted into energy 1:1. So if you get 100 research, it is coverted into 100 energy.
3. ALL items are converted into energy. If you sell them at this stage, they are usually way more energy than if you sell then in inventory. Typically items sell between 50 and 200 energy, depending on tier.
4. You take ALL THAT and multiply it by .15 or whatever it is. That is the cosmite reward.
5. Then you then get ALL THE ENERGY and multiply that by 1.15 or some such ON TOP OF the cosmite.

Can you now see how this is bonkers? If you do this two or three times per turn, that is more resources than you can spend. At the end of my last game, I was making the craziest Sarnokarn I have ever seen played one per turn from my capital, plus support units flying out of everything fully decked. It was beyond crazy..
 
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coodav

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lol please watch a few of my playthrough on YT, and you will see how I play. I have started using Secret State a bit more recently, but I play on similar settings, on a medium map, as that is the default for the game, and what the devs most likely balanced the game for. Oh and I haven't lost a match that I was taking seriously/recording (i have lost one or two, where I was testing some strategies off camera), so i think I understand the AI fairly well.
Damn I want to play you now. I am dying to see how this works out for you. I am really confident. But do this in the meantime; move that out of D. You know that is nuts.

Tell you what, though. Can I take that as a challenge? Shall we put this on blast and stream it or something? We can look at each other every few turns to see how we are doing. I will guarantee that I will swap to Black Market by turn 40 and never take it off. We will compare resources in the end. Let's just re-roll the map until I get Therians beside me so I can be certain I can do this. And you can't use it.

I will bet you if I don't get beat by 40, I will fly past you. I mean scream past.

So, after, team that gets less cosmite / energy writes a 'i'm so sorry' post?

Thoughts? Fair?
 

HousePet

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Can you now see how this is bonkers?
Yes, you keep trying to tell me that I don't know how the game works. Giving me a step by step explanation of how Selling Location Clear Rewards works. Seriously?

You are also saying that the Energy given from Selling Rewards is increased, which is not what the Doctrine says. You don't provide any evidence or make a bug report.
 

coodav

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Yes, you keep trying to tell me that I don't know how the game works. Giving me a step by step explanation of how Selling Location Clear Rewards works. Seriously?

You are also saying that the Energy given from Selling Rewards is increased, which is not what the Doctrine says. You don't provide any evidence or make a bug report.
Sooo.... you agree? I am getting the sarcasm pretty clear, but whatever, up to you. I don't think it is a bug. I don't play mods, and this is default, as far as I can see.
 

TreborTheTall

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Damn I want to play you now. I am dying to see how this works out for you. I am really confident. But do this in the meantime; move that out of D. You know that is nuts.

Tell you what, though. Can I take that as a challenge? Shall we put this on blast and stream it or something? We can look at each other every few turns to see how we are doing. I will guarantee that I will swap to Black Market by turn 40 and never take it off. We will compare resources in the end. Let's just re-roll the map until I get Therians beside me so I can be certain I can do this. And you can't use it.

I will bet you if I don't get beat by 40, I will fly past you. I mean scream past.

So, after, team that gets less cosmite / energy writes a 'i'm so sorry' post?

Thoughts? Fair?
I think you should play your strategy against a player with more mp experience (maybe sinsling, ninjew or orangelex44), but I appreciate the offer. I got a lot on my plate right now, just starting a new job this week, moved, and my cat is like super sick, and may not make it.. so yeah, idk, maybe in like August or September when things start to chill out.

Honestly tho, ty for sharing your thoughts. Like I said in my disclaimer, the tier list is based on how I like to play. Hopefully some new players get something out of reading the discussion/debate.

I think I will add a better with synergy icon to BMC to show that I think it is not "D tier/avoid" if you invest enough in the strategy. Does that seem fair?
 

coodav

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I think you should play your strategy against a player with more mp experience (maybe sinsling, ninjew or orangelex44), but I appreciate the offer. I got a lot on my plate right now, just starting a new job this week, moved, and my cat is like super sick, and may not make it.. so yeah, idk, maybe in like August or September when things start to chill out.

Honestly tho, ty for sharing your thoughts. Like I said in my disclaimer, the tier list is based on how I like to play. Hopefully some new players get something out of reading the discussion/debate.

I think I will add a better with synergy icon to BMC to show that I think it is not "D tier/avoid" if you invest enough in the strategy. Does that seem fair?
Hey, it's your show. I am just glad it's out there. You are missing out though. I wasn't planning to be all 'hatey,' so you know. I think we could check in every 10 turns or so (say at each hero spawn), and show where the curves break upward. I think you would be surprised.

And I saw some of your streams, and I think you are right. It may be best to go at someone with MP chops. You keep it pretty chill in those videos. That would be impossible in MP. Stress is too much higher. It might get you to reconsider some of this though, if you did. Offer remains open. I'm not all that crazy good, I am just patient and objective.

What I would suggest for the 'D tier / avoid' thing is not to jump to any conclusions. Thing is, there are over 100 doctrines, as you showed. Most people are still feeling them out, including me. What I would suggest is talking with some of the guys at Paradox and finding out what the numbers actually are. I bet they would give a readout of figures, maybe even a really good one, that shows what these are capable of in a game. They must use something that tracks performance during gameplay, and they don't seem to be doing anything much with it right now. If you got it, I bet you would need to redo your chart pretty significantly once you see the actual benefit of each of the doctrines. I mean seriously, this really, really doesn't match my experience.

But I vote you put it higher. D is not close. A few others too.
 

coodav

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You are also saying that the Energy given from Selling Rewards is increased, which is not what the Doctrine says. You don't provide any evidence or make a bug report.
Ok, let me focus on this part. I just ran over to my personal computer, and sparked the game up. I then ran over to a pirate cove and blew it up. I got two items, 45 energy and the Tier 2 mod "Emergency Combat Regenerator." This item can be purchased for 24 energy and 12 cosmite. For these two items, by selling on the Black Market, it gave me 95 energy and 14 cosmite. That is obviously way better, as I would not normally purchase that mod due to my build-out. I always have tons of regeneration, and that is just an OK mod. *I'll post a picture tomorrow, as the wifi is down.

So if I actually accept the reward, and put it in inventory, then sell it later on the black market, I get the 45 first, plus 17 energy and 3 cosmite for the mod. That is 62 energy and 3 cosmite, obviously worse than 95/14.

So here is what I am thinking. Even though it normally looks like you are getting a big bonus, you really aren't. It just looks like it. If you take 45 energy and 17 energy (inventory item rates), you get a bonus of 35% energy on the sale (34.74%). The cosmite math doesn't work though. 62 * 15% = 9.3, which doesn't work out, no matter what. So I don't think that is really what is happening. Doesn't work with 24 either.

My guess is that what is really happening is you get 50 energy for the mod ONE TIME ONLY, plus the energy. 45 + 50 = 95. Then 95 X 15% = 14.25, rounds down to 14, which is the 95/14 we got. I frequently get a lot of items from victory conditions, and I believe they show as round numbers when you just sell them without black market. I believe the smallest is 25, and the highest is 200 or 250 for a tier 4 weapon. Can't recall offhand. If this also gives a bonus the sale price, we may be talking. I didn't validate it there though.

But I think you might be right. While this is a lot better than accepting it into inventory, it isn't an extra 15% on the energy too, though it feels like it. It is probably 100% of the energy, plus 15% cosmite on top based on a big one-time bonus. Note though that you get more than it takes to actually build the unit. by a decent stretch Accordingly, it is always better to Black Market your items, so long as you can rebuild them.

What I want to try next is linking it to other doctrines and abilities. I have got to see what Scavengers, Star Union Scholar, and the Forgotten's doctrine Forgotten Depths (possibly) do to this. They increase rewards by quite a bit, and if they work with this, you are really in for a treat.

Edit:

Just confirmed it. I switched Black Market off, and did it again. Got 95 energy for the sale, no cosmite. So selling this Tier 2 item gets you 50, one time only.

Can someone tell me what the one-time-only bonus is for Tier 3 and Tier 4?
 

coodav

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OK, finally got the internet up. Let me show you the 'proof':

In this particular turn, I got 3 black market rewards, as follows:

2020-06-24 (8).png


This was the 45 energy ECR combo I talked about above.

Then I got this:

2020-06-25.png


Now this one was pretty sweet. This was an Imperial Walker, which is crap, and an Inspector, which is good, but I am good without it.

Then finally I hit the quest right below it:

2020-06-25 (2).png


Which appears to show exactly what I said. Tier 2 units are 50 one-time-only, and apparently either Tier 3 or Tier 4 start to break into the 200+ energy range. Because in ONE TURN, I got 14+38+14 = 66 cosmite (In addition to 438 energy). And guys, this is ONE TURN. Look at my cosmite income. This one turn was a 660% bonus to cosmite.

So there is the 'proof,' though I kind-of conceded the point. I won't concede that this is an awesome doctrine though.

And guys, I didn't miss any of this. An Imperial Walker? No way. An Imperial Launcher? No, sono-fins for me FTW. Emergency regeneration is good, and would be nice, but it isn't endgame, and the higher energy and cosmite are worth it no matter what.

Now again, I got the pirate invasion and quests out the arse. This isn't exactly typical, but doesn't matter. It is almost like this anyway.
 
Last edited:

Ethorin

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Honestly, I think any doctrinal tier list has to have an asterisk attached "for my playstyle"

Pretty much all of them are at least situationally high value and, like, honestly, objectively speaking I think there's only two tiers of doctrines
S-Tier: Literally never bad, always relevantly impactful
A-Tier: either broadly useful but situationally bad or often pointless but situationally OP

And even that is like "ok but"

Because how you set up your world is going to affect the value of doctrines a LOT.

For instance, I like setting Rivers and Chasms to max frequency, I like having the flat bit of extra food/energy once I hit the tech and at max frequency that's not even just a little extra (a 5 sector city at max river frequency usually has at least four and often five sectors with food, that's 40-50 extra food for a tech you need anyway) That means the first Shakarn Eco Doctrine (Homeworld Reminiscence) is always +15 food and +4 happiness all the time. So, at max river settings, that's probably S-Tier all the time. On the other hand, if you have default river settings even Continental maps can leave you with a starting city that needs two/three sectors to have the impact. And at that point is it even worth using early? And later I usually have breadbaskets so should I bother at all?

On the other hand there's the Shakarn Campaign and oh boy is that one a doozy. I had like half my early positive food income off that Doctrine.