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tcdmf

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Mar 8, 2023
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As the history of nearly 300 years of empire, Ming in the game is often comprehensive collapse early in the 16th century, the southern provinces are often some small countries, such as Bangladesh, Da Yue, Chagatai, etc., and this is completely impossible in history.Thought this update can sligcorrect this, let players history line normal as far as possible, improve the history of the player of the sense, but after we read the update log, but feel very absurd and sad, especially about Ming update. In the many discussions of players about Ming, many unreasonable places have been put forward. I have collected and sorted out three of which I think are more important, and I hope that the developers can modify this:
1. The task is not rich, less rewards. The 30 missions are still too short for other powers, and the rewards are far too few for other powers.
2. The provincial land parcel is too large, and the development degree does not conform to the history. Especially in the south of the Yangtze River: Yangzhou, Fengyang and other provinces should be further refined. In addition, the development degree is not reasonable. We can consider giving the provinces more manpower. After all, Ming is a populous country.(In addition, on the balance issue, personal advice can consider forcing Ming a higher degree of autonomy, such as 50%. It is known that, as a rich country, Ming's tax is very rotten, many scholars are not willing to pay taxes, so Ming empty has a huge amount of development, but very little tax.)
3. The new class eunuch is very unreasonable. In fact, by the Ming Dynasty, eunuchs were the most loyal servants of the emperor, especially the imperial officials and Dong Chang(司礼监和东厂), which were important institutions to guarantee the status of the emperor. Although may increase corruption, reduce the army, but the eunuch is absolutely not rebellion, in fact to the late Ming real control and drag down Ming is not eunuch class, but boast justice, but greedy scholar civilian, so I personally think that some eunuch privileges transplanted to the gentry will be more reasonable.
Finally, I hope developers can hear and face the voices of players, and make good games with both gameplay and historical immersion.
 
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Lykus Cerebros

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I don't agree because I don't see how to make the Ming actually interesting to play.

I don't feel like they fit the EU4 formula as a game built around expanding and building your nation. Ming has already done that and their influence in the cultural, technological or economic areas can't really be represented in the current system. Sure you can work with internal politics and a game focus on that would be cool, but I don't see eu4 being that game.

Ming is the biggest country by far and there is no one around to challenge them in the hands of a player that unless you severely hamper the available actions that they will stomp everyone without breaking a sweat. So what's the point in actually playing them? Sure you get your power fantasy for a time, but the fact that they aren't even in the top 20 nations played underlines that playing the biggest guy isn't popular as well
 
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tcdmf

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Mar 8, 2023
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I don't agree because I don't see how to make the Ming actually interesting to play.

I don't feel like they fit the EU4 formula as a game built around expanding and building your nation. Ming has already done that and their influence in the cultural, technological or economic areas can't really be represented in the current system. Sure you can work with internal politics and a game focus on that would be cool, but I don't see eu4 being that game.

Ming is the biggest country by far and there is no one around to challenge them in the hands of a player that unless you severely hamper the available actions that they will stomp everyone without breaking a sweat. So what's the point in actually playing them? Sure you get your power fantasy for a time, but the fact that they aren't even in the top 20 nations played underlines that playing the biggest guy isn't popular as well
To be honest, I think your point about fun makes sense. At the beginning of the game, the Ming Dynasty felt unchallenging. This is probably why, in the midst of the update, all the great powers have strengthened, but the Ming Dynasty seems to be weakening. Perhaps the developers think that strengthening the countries around the Ming Dynasty would make players more challenging to play, and more fun.
I found that developers did not seem to study the economy and politics of the Ming Dynasty well, (and so did the Qing Dynasty): for example, in the class, developers imagined eunuchs very powerful, but ignored the influence of the gentry on the country. In addition, in terms of state affairs, the Ming Dynasty fought a series of large-scale wars against Myanmar in 1444, which made the Ming Dynasty empty against the northern Mongol tribes, thus the change of civil fort. There are many other things that are ignored or gone wrong in the game.
Moreover, I am not opposed to weakening the Ming Dynasty to increase the playability. For example, in this update, the minimum autonomy of Daming was adjusted to 25%, which I think is very good. Avoid starting the Ming Dynasty too strong to be loved by players, but also consistent with history.
In short, while this can be challenging for developers, hopefully they will focus on playability and make the countries in the game somewhat history.
 
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more interesting events, missions such as the series about "Restart Zheng He's Expeditions" would also be a good choice when considering to make players have more fun.

I don't know why we must rebalance (actually only weaken) the military power of Ming Dynasty and strengthen the countries around so as to make all the countries around can only set "Conquer the Dragon" as their goal in their game.

we shouldn't give those countries around Ming plenty of missions to destroy this dragon but in the meanwhile refuse to give Ming the same chance to strike back though some special mission or events. Or is this an unalterable rule that Ming cannot have more mechanism than others?

hope get any buddy's thoughts or suggestions. :)
 
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Lykus Cerebros

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3. The new class eunuch is very unreasonable. In fact, by the Ming Dynasty, eunuchs were the most loyal servants of the emperor, especially the imperial officials and Dong Chang, which were important institutions to guarantee the status of the emperor. Although may increase corruption, reduce the army, but the eunuch is absolutely not rebellion, in fact to the late Ming real control and drag down Ming is not eunuch class, but boast justice, but greedy scholar civilian, so I personally think that some eunuch privileges transplanted to the gentry will be more reasonable.
I have no idea where you are getting that from. This is a really weird take on history. What even does most loyal mean?
 
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imvdmstill

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I have no idea where you are getting that from. This is a really weird take on history. What even does most loyal mean?
While I don’t agree with the aim or intention of the post, I get what they are trying to say. The Ming eunuchs derive power directly from being the emperor’s personal assistant, and thus have inherent vested interest in a strengthened system of absolute monarchy (but preferably without an actual absolute monarch).
 
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tcdmf

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I have no idea where you are getting that from. This is a really weird take on history. What even does most loyal mean?
First of all, because the Ming laws of the Ming Dynasty did not specify the power of eunuchs, the power of eunuchs was uncertain to some extent, so their power was highly dependent on the preferences of the emperor. This is equivalent to the emperor can give any ordinary eunuch the highest authority, or casually kill a eunuch with an important position.
Secondly, eunuchs were unable to bear children, which led to eunuchs who would not consider killing the emperor and becoming the emperor themselves. Not only that, the eunuchs had to do their best to maintain the power and status of the emperor, so that the eunuchs themselves could share more of the power given by the emperor. This also meant that eunuchs often had to remain loyal to the emperor. In 1644, for example, when the rebels invaded the Ming capital, most of the civil servants fled or surrendered to the rebels. However, the eunuchs chose to commit suicide with the emperor, because the political power of these eunuchs came from the emperors of the Ming Dynasty. They did not have the political family and political influence as civil officials. After the surrender, they would have no value and were very likely to be humiliated and brutally killed by the rebels.
In short, the value and political power of eunuchs basically came from the preferences of the emperor, and in history, no eunuchs actively rebelled against his emperor. On the contrary, the civil officials always wanted to expand their power and erode the power of the emperor. This is why I say that eunuchs are the most loyal to the emperor, because they always help the emperor against his political enemies and maintain the emperor's rule.
 
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I don't agree because I don't see how to make the Ming actually interesting to play.

I don't feel like they fit the EU4 formula as a game built around expanding and building your nation. Ming has already done that and their influence in the cultural, technological or economic areas can't really be represented in the current system. Sure you can work with internal politics and a game focus on that would be cool, but I don't see eu4 being that game.

Ming is the biggest country by far and there is no one around to challenge them in the hands of a player that unless you severely hamper the available actions that they will stomp everyone without breaking a sweat. So what's the point in actually playing them? Sure you get your power fantasy for a time, but the fact that they aren't even in the top 20 nations played underlines that playing the biggest guy isn't popular as well
Playing Ming is not fun, so we just ignore it?
Yes, this game is 'Europa' Universalis, but Ming do worth a well-designed simulation system. Clausewitz is old but still sufficient
 
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I have no idea where you are getting that from. This is a really weird take on history. What even does most loyal mean?
Eunuchs can't have child, and most of them are from bottom or minority.(Like the famous navigator ZhengHe, he is Persian)
So they have little connection to nobles or landlords.

In most of the dynasties, eunuchs are the natural alliance of the emperor, especially they are the strongest power in spy departments and vetting departments.
 
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thefirstblood1

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I don't agree because I don't see how to make the Ming actually interesting to play.

I don't feel like they fit the EU4 formula as a game built around expanding and building your nation. Ming has already done that and their influence in the cultural, technological or economic areas can't really be represented in the current system. Sure you can work with internal politics and a game focus on that would be cool, but I don't see eu4 being that game.

Ming is the biggest country by far and there is no one around to challenge them in the hands of a player that unless you severely hamper the available actions that they will stomp everyone without breaking a sweat. So what's the point in actually playing them? Sure you get your power fantasy for a time, but the fact that they aren't even in the top 20 nations played underlines that playing the biggest guy isn't popular as well
Now the treatment of Ming is just a lazy behavior. The Ming Dynasty is boring. It is very powerful in the hands of players, and will soon perish in the hands of AI. But if you think carefully, Ming can become very interesting.For example, the financial problems, power struggles and nomadic harassment in the Ming Dynasty in history. We can simulate that when the Ming Dynasty launched a war, it would reduce taxes and increase autonomy.We can also add "都指挥","布政使","按察使"and"潘王", some unique types of trading companies, to divide the huge size of the Ming Dynasty.There are a lot of plans here, just need time to design carefully
 
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