Unwanted allies?!

[unmerged(21324)]

In my last (current) game as Germany (1.06 / CORE 0.82) a most curious thing happened. I hadn't done anything in diplomacy screen for a loooong time but suddenly at late 1939 while I was busy conquering France a pop-up window appeared that told me that Norway had agreed to join my military alliance! There was no option to deny it. At that time only Germany and Slovakia were members of the axis. So, the question is: can the AI controlled other nations invite others to join alliance?

Otherwise it was not too bad to have Norway in the axis but the darn British almost immediately invaded Oslo, Narvik and another province which name I don't recall at the moment, forcing me to deploy all my mountain units there (9 divs in 3 stacks) since the Norwegians were unable to drive the Brits out themselves. Heh.. that made operation Seelöwe easier afterwards but still I would want to have some say who is invited to my alliance and who is not.

 

[CGS]

It has never happened to me, only by events, but I think it is the only explanation. And if you were able to invade England easier, it is not so bad, isn't it?. Those diplomats from Slovakia seem to be very intelligent

 

[unmerged(11800)]

This is because of the Altmark Incident. I got this myself as Germany too. I don't know what the actual incident was but it seems that Norway got pissed off at Brits "violating their neutrality" and choosed to join the Axis or DoW UK etc. Other option is that Germany gets an event about the preparations for the Norway invasion, and can choose to make a DoW, construct transports etc. This should be extremely rare, something like the Unholy Alliance in Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

 

[unmerged(28582)]

I just had this "Evil Norway" thing happen myself. Another strange alliance I have had thrust upon me as Germany was when Egypt got on board with the Axis (perhaps some sort of anti-Colonialism or early Nasser event for them)
In that particular game Egypt actually overran the entire Nile estuary for a time and even took some of the Belgian colonies. Needless to say, a way better performance than the Italians have ever given as a German ally!

 

[unmerged(16843)]

I just had a game while playing the UK, where the USA spontaneously joined my alliance. The war with Japan had been going on for several months, and the US had even rejected an invitation to alliance - so it was odd to see the diplomatic turnaround. I didn't mind, but I did find it odd that there wasn't an option to decline.

 

[Thistletooth]

This is because of the Altmark Incident. I got this myself as Germany too. I don't know what the actual incident was but it seems that Norway got pissed off at Brits "violating their neutrality" and choosed to join the Axis or DoW UK etc. Other option is that Germany gets an event about the preparations for the Norway invasion, and can choose to make a DoW, construct transports etc. This should be extremely rare, something like the Unholy Alliance in Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

Historically, the British cruiser 'Arethusa' intercepted the German supply ship 'Altmark' off the coast of Norway in February 1940. The Altmark was carrying British POWs captured during a raid off the coast of Argentina by the pocket battleship Graf Spee and its squadron. The rules of naval warfare, fighting in/around neutral territory, auxillery vessels were all very confusing, but suffice it to say, the Germans felt that the Altmark was immune to boarding and searching by international law. The Altmark was being escorted by two small Norwegian vessels (I guess Norway agreed with the German view of the law of the seas) when the Arethusa showed up with the 4th Destroyer Flotilla.

Churchill and the Admiralty, apparently fearing any propaganda the successful return of the POWs to Germany would create, ordered the Arethusa to board the ship, despite it being in Norwegian waters. The Altmark, being unarmed, and the Norwegians, not wanting to attack the Royal Navy, could do nothing to stop the Altmark being boarded and the 299 POWs freed. The Altmark was allowed to return to Germany without the POWs. Hitler knew that he had been denied a propaganda victory, and he ordered plans to invade Norway within a couple of months.

As the event is written, the option for Norway to join the Axis is the third of three options, so you don't have to worry about it happening too often. It's not as rare as the Unholy Alliance event, however, as that would require two non-historical choices, as opposed to only one for the Altmark Incident.

 

[unmerged(21324)]

Thanks

Thank you guys for the speedy and apparently accurate analysis of the situation. The Altmark event must be the reason for Norway suddenly joining the axis. I have to admit that I'm lazy enough not to have looked in the event files for possible explanations

Historically I can understand why the Germans chose to invade Norway but in HoI i don't think its worth the effort. Normally, playing Germany, I never go to Norway. In this case though, the British sealed ther fate by sending troops to Norway and thus weakening the defense of the home island. They lost at least 15 divisions there while Coventry was completely undefended and whole Britain fell after approximately 1 month of combat

Playing as Germany (SP) I have a tendency to invest rather heavily in surface navy, since I deem it absolutely critical that the British islands must be taken in quick succession after France in order to make a successful war against the Soviet Union. Not that Germany had a chance to numerically challenge to RN but since the AI seems to keep the majority of its ships god knows where the Kriegsmarine has a good chance to dominate the north sea.

 

[Thistletooth]

Thank you guys for the speedy and apparently accurate analysis of the situation. The Altmark event must be the reason for Norway suddenly joining the axis. I have to admit that I'm lazy enough not to have looked in the event files for possible explanations

Just click on the event (look for both types) in the ledger and click "pop-up, or pop-up and pause" or whatever it's called. It could get tiresome, but it'll keep you up to date on everything that's happening.

Historically I can understand why the Germans chose to invade Norway but in HoI i don't think its worth the effort. Normally, playing Germany, I never go to Norway.

You must be confident with your steel reserves, then? Well...I guess if you conquer enough of your neighbors, it wouldn't be a problem, but it sure was historically. Germany needed Norwegian steel as well as the country itself to pressure the Swedes into sharing some of their steel and iron ore as well. German industry would have failed without it

In this case though, the British sealed ther fate by sending troops to Norway and thus weakening the defense of the home island. They lost at least 15 divisions there while Coventry was completely undefended and whole Britain fell after approximately 1 month of combat

Yeah, like your typical British garrison is going to be sooooo difficult to brush aside.

Playing as Germany (SP) I have a tendency to invest rather heavily in surface navy, since I deem it absolutely critical that the British islands must be taken in quick succession after France in order to make a successful war against the Soviet Union. Not that Germany had a chance to numerically challenge to RN but since the AI seems to keep the majority of its ships god knows where the Kriegsmarine has a good chance to dominate the north sea.

Naval bombers will annihilate the Royal Navy much faster and at a much lesser cost. Except, that it, if the Royal Navy sticks all 50-60 of its squadrons in Portsmouth. Then you'll have to lure them out one by one and destroy them with your battleships, and that's a true pain. Of course...you can always redirect your invasion further north.

BTW, as long as you have a decent-sized army, the Soviets probably won't declare war on you until late '41 at the earliest, so you'll still have another year or so after the Fall of France to destroy the British. I take my time, everytime, and I'm always prepared for the Soviets. It's also a little more realistic to take Britain in '41 than to be mega-gamey and sneak your way around in '40, IMHO.

 

[unmerged(21324)]

Naval bombers will annihilate the Royal Navy much faster and at a much lesser cost. Except, that it, if the Royal Navy sticks all 50-60 of its squadrons in Portsmouth. Then you'll have to lure them out one by one and destroy them with your battleships, and that's a true pain. Of course...you can always redirect your invasion further north.

BTW, as long as you have a decent-sized army, the Soviets probably won't declare war on you until late '41 at the earliest, so you'll still have another year or so after the Fall of France to destroy the British. I take my time, everytime, and I'm always prepared for the Soviets. It's also a little more realistic to take Britain in '41 than to be mega-gamey and sneak your way around in '40, IMHO.

Speaking of gamey, personally I think naval bombers are at the moment the one most unbalanced aspect of HoI. Usually, playing Germany, I don't build more than 6 of them. It kind of takes the fun out of the game to kill the whole royal navy with some (relatively) cheap planes.

The Soviets generally don't trouble me too much.. I've learned to be careful with them. And never EVER sign the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact It's so much easier to go for Moscow when you don't have to fight your way over the eastern Poland again.

Once the Soviets really did catch me with my pants down. I think it was in 1.03 or something like that. My message settings had somehow been messed up and DoWs only appeared in the log. Now imagine my surprise when I had been busy directing my submarine campaign against the British when suddenly I noticed Russian tanks driving through Warsaw They had declared war on me and killed the relatively weak border units in Poland without me even noticing anything out of order...

 

[Thistletooth]

The Soviets generally don't trouble me too much.. I've learned to be careful with them. And never EVER sign the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact It's so much easier to go for Moscow when you don't have to fight your way over the eastern Poland again.

I was under the impression that invading Poland without M-R in CORE would trigger a Soviet DoW? If you want the best advantage (and are willing to be very gamey, if you aren't already by refusing the M-R), sign it, grab Poland, and just don't annex. }: )

*dodges the rotten vegetables hurled at him by the other forum members*

Once the Soviets really did catch me with my pants down. I think it was in 1.03 or something like that. My message settings had somehow been messed up and DoWs only appeared in the log. Now imagine my surprise when I had been busy directing my submarine campaign against the British when suddenly I noticed Russian tanks driving through Warsaw They had declared war on me and killed the relatively weak border units in Poland without me even noticing anything out of order...

Now you know how the Red Army felt.

 

[Henry v. Keiper]

I was an Axis power and I found nations joining left and right. It was mindboggling.

Its probably one of those AI advantages, like in Civilization II how the AI doesn't need a diplomat to open discussions with you.