Unrewarding play - insight wanted

[Internetnubje]

I have played this game the past few days as the bug caught me again and I had some free time. I picked the nation Belgium as it's my home country and I prefer a semi-small nation with less focus on navy. My initial plan was to make a industrious and technological advanced nation with the focus of capturing Benelux under my control. I played on regular difficulty and ironman mode without historical focuses.

I just stopped playing because in all honesty (and I realize some might judge me here) it was simply not fun anymore. I am simply wondering if I am missing anything or if others shared similar frustrations.

Some notes about my game:
- I joined the com interim to be able to declare war etc
- France did not join the allies and made their own faction with Luxembourg and Czechoslovakia. When I noticed it boosted my confidence that I would have an easier time conquering the Netherlands. However they got obliterated by Germany and Italy pretty fast. This wasn't exactly a surprise because well... they are France and Luxembourg and Czechoslovakia are nothing more then comedic sidekicks. Nevertheless my initial goal did not change until Germany declared was upon me and took one province and I was forced to take my troops from the border with the Netherlands and focus on protecting my enlarged border with Germany. This made me force to abandon my planned war with the Netherlands (as I just had justification to declare war upon them). But hey that happens in a game and I am more then happy punching nazi's back too.
- I did pretty well against the nazi's. I kicked them back successfully out of half of France. I pretty much had everything from France from Orleans up North (including Paris). Next to that I pretty much conquered Rhineland and most of Mosulland. I had a war score between 12-15%, so I was one of the victors. Only Poland, USSR and Britain had more I believe.
- Germany declared war upon Poland some time after my own war with them. Poland has a faction with the 3 Baltic states and has a mutual independence guarantee with Romania. As stated above they were one of the major victors. With assistance for the USSR (do me being part of their faction) they pounded Germany. They took Berlin. The axis were soon forced into peace negotiations.

Now here is where I personally lost a great deal of my fun and interest in the game. As I was a pretty major victor and obviously I did a good part in pounding the nazi's I was expecting to get 1-3 provinces. To my very surprise as it was my turn nothing was left really. The only options available for me to pick was to puppet Hungary or take all their states. I did not had enough warscore for either one of those and frankly it did not interest me or made much sense.

The aftermath from the peace talks was as follows

Spoiler

- Poland is certainly on their way to go into space
- Germany only has one province in actual Germany, the rest is in France
- There are two Spains in Spain. Britain is occupying most of Spain
- a lot of the countries joined Britain and the allies

I played the game a bit longer but after, trying to beat back Poland but Romania who joined the allies and still is guaranteeing Poland's independence turned the game into pretty much a dead lock. As I declared war upon Poland I was basically at war with the world due to Romania being part of the allies after the peace conference. It was simply not fun anymore.


Now I am trying to figure out what I am missing here.
- From a historical aspect it makes no sense I was not rewarded for doing pretty well in the war. After the first world war Belgium even got territory from Germany as compensation for their efforts and damage caused by them. Neither would any country historically find it acceptable to give Poland that much territory as it just messes up the balance of powers in Europe hardcore. Nor would Germany be re-positioned into France and there wouldn't be two Spains.
- From a gaming aspect it makes no sense I was not rewarded for doing well and being a large part of beating back the nazi's and not getting any reward for my hard work and doing good.

Now I am looking for some insights or anything I am missing. I love the concept and type of game and especially the depth of it. But due to the situation above it makes me lose interest quickly.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Peace Conference is still crap... Nothing chamged.

 

[noobermenschen]

That campaign was unrewarding? What do you do for fun? Especially consider Belgium's usual performance in every campaign:

 

[Internetnubje]

Actually if you read anything of my OP you would have noticed I did not die and did pretty well in the war. That was the point after all.
I can also state that I am very calm.

I am asking for insights what I am missing of overlooked, ...

 

[Rafled]

Actually if you read anything of my OP you would have noticed I did not die and did pretty well in the war. That was the point after all.
I can also state that I am very calm.

I am asking for insights what I am missing of overlooked, ...

Peace conference mod = smaller Poland, bigger Belgium?

 

[noobermenschen]

Actually if you read anything of my OP you would have noticed I did not die and did pretty well in the war. That was the point after all.
I can also state that I am very calm.

I am asking for insights what I am missing of overlooked, ...

Since you completely missed my point I will explain it: You overlooked what appeared to be a pretty kickass campaign as Belgium to give up and complain when things didn't go your way.

 

[grandad1982]

Player led peace conference mod.

 

[Matoro_TBS]

Peace conferences are buggy and seem like an afterthought. The real reward is the fact that you kicked Adolf's teeth in as Belgium.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Since you completely missed my point I will explain it: You overlooked what appeared to be a pretty kickass campaign as Belgium to give up and complain when things didn't go your way.

It's pretty reasonable to drop games like a rock when their outcome is not consistent with player actions.

The interaction of war contributions and peace conferences is both broken by design (things that count vs don't and how much) and bugged (how bombing is "calculated"). This combines to allow decisive contributions go unrewarded, to reward nations that had minimal influence in the outcome (even ones that never set foot on target soil), and do so at the expense of nations that captured that land exclusively.

I've had multiple situations where my troops were literally the only ones to touch a core province of a given nation, been in my own faction, had > 10% war contribution despite the broken system...and despite all that be denied from even getting a single turn at the peace conference. I've also grabbed > 60M population worth of Chinese puppet with < 5% score.

That's not how a functional mechanic works.

 

[Armacalic]

The peace conferences are mechanically okay and relatively functional. The thing that screwed you over is that you didn't lose enough people of your own manpower pool to warrant giving you anything but a pat in the back for your kickass campaign of a country that usually just fucking dies in any campaign.

The problem with the peace conference is what it rewards:

Bombing of enemy territory.
Occupation of territory.
And casualties.

The equation should work on a technical level, since occupation score is relatively decenf. But you are prey to how callous the AI can be to their own manpower.

 

[Matoro_TBS]

The peace conferences are mechanically okay and relatively functional. The thing that screwed you over is that you didn't lose enough people of your own manpower pool to warrant giving you anything but a pat in the back for your kickass campaign of a country that usually just fucking dies in any campaign.

The problem with the peace conference is what it rewards:

Bombing of enemy territory.
Occupation of territory.
And casualties.

The equation should work on a technical level, since occupation score is relatively decenf. But you are prey to how callous the AI can be to their own manpower.

Except occupation of territory isn't good mechanic, since usually while playing Allies you are either liberating stuff or attacking from your ally's land. It's Netherlands and France who occupy Germany after US lands there, since the occupation doesn't go to the one who actually conquers stuff. I've never managed to get AI give me control of any state, which would fix the problem.

Doesn't casualties though mean also casualties caused by you? Just killing enemies gives score, right?

 

[Armacalic]

Except occupation of territory isn't good mechanic, since usually while playing Allies you are either liberating stuff or attacking from your ally's land. It's Netherlands and France who occupy Germany after US lands there, since the occupation doesn't go to the one who actually conquers stuff. I've never managed to get AI give me control of any state, which would fix the problem.

Doesn't casualties though mean also casualties caused by you? Just killing enemies gives score, right?

Nope. Literally the only casualties that count for your own score are your own. At least, as far as I'm aware.

 

[MJAnderson]

Just get the player led peace conference. It's really the only way to play. the system built into the game is a mess as you discovered.

 

[Black5Raven]

I believe that *casualites* shoulnt give victory points or give a way less. Or just rework the whole peace conference system.
As Germany i take down France and UK. What did Italy ? Just lose near 200.000 - 300.000 man (thank you British navy !). And they were rewarded with half of France and Africa.
As Nationalist Spain i take down France and UK wthouth fighting them (paratupers drom in major cities for achivment). So they both surrendered to me (Germany even do not touch France and Italy wasnt abble to crush their fortification).
And they got everything on peace conferention. Wonderful.

So yeah - its broken as hell.

 

[Nereid]

I believe that *casualites* shoulnt give victory points or give a way less.

I totally agree.

Occupied territory (especially due to combat) and enflicted casualties should count, not own casualties. If own casualties count, they should count much less.

So yeah - its broken as hell.

if it's true, that just own casualties count, I would call it just broken by design.

PS: the HO4-Wiki says its not true (but it's true for casualties alone). It's bombing, taking land from the enemy and losses.

But even this is strange. Why should a country gain warscore by throwing less equipped forces into combat just to suffer casualties for warscore? If they inflict casualties instead they should gain more score. Just think about WW2 imagine US would have given territory in Europe to the sovjets because of their losses? Ridiculous.

But IMHO they should get score by WINNING combat instead of casualties, weightet by manpower/defence/whatever that they are against.

 

[bERt0r]

Wait a second. The problem here is that you joined the Comintern. You drew in too man factions against Germany and now you're sad because you have to share your spoils of war. You said you did well, I disagree. You took parts of France not Germany. The poles probably lost 2 million men and the UK probably won the air battle.

 

[Armacalic]

It IS somewhat obnoxious. Bu casualties own alone make some sense from a logical stand point, it is assumed that the country has paid a large contribution to the war effort specifically because of their losses. But the problem you run into is still the AI, both in peace conferences and in combat.

 

[Black5Raven]

Wait a second. The problem here is that you joined the Comintern. You drew in too man factions against Germany and now you're sad because you have to share your spoils of war. You said you did well, I disagree. You took parts of France not Germany. The poles probably lost 2 million men and the UK probably won the air battle.

And ? If poles just lose 2 millions and did nothing to defeat Germany in the game and all job was performed by Belgium/SU/UK - Its not a reason to give them a whole Germany bc they get war score due to casualities.

If i join in war as China and do not get any single province but lose 20 millions - should i get the whole Japan/Germany and rest of Europe ? The same happened here. War score system and peace conference - they broken.

 

[Armacalic]

And ? If poles just lose 2 millions and did nothing to defeat Germany in the game and all job was performed by Belgium/SU/UK - Its not a reason to give them a whole Germany bc they get war score due to casualities.

If i join in war as China and do not get any single province but lose 20 millions - should i get the whole Japan/Germany and rest of Europe ? The same happened here. War score system and peace conference - they broken.

The thing is, your 'and' is moot. The score has at least a logical reason behind it.

The problem is still the AI not performing up to human standards and gaining extra score with shoddy play. The systems work, but the AI ends up 'cheating' the player by being dumb.

 

[bERt0r]

And ? If poles just lose 2 millions and did nothing to defeat Germany in the game and all job was performed by Belgium/SU/UK - Its not a reason to give them a whole Germany bc they get war score due to casualities.

If i join in war as China and do not get any single province but lose 20 millions - should i get the whole Japan/Germany and rest of Europe ? The same happened here. War score system and peace conference - they broken.

That's what happened in reality... the Soviets didn't take that much German territory either. Their casualties were a big issue in the peace conference.