Unreliable So-called "Allies"

[stevieji]

Can anyone explain how 'allies' decide which side they will join in a war between two of THEIR allies. Situation is this - I am Castille, allied to Portugal and France. I want to attack Aragon, which is also allied to Portugal and France. I have been improving their opinions of me to the max - and in both cases they have a better opinion of me than of Aragon, but as usual they have both sided with Aragon. It seems like the AI will always oppose the human player - or am I just being paranoid?
On the other hand, the AI is always asking me to join wars against my allies - resulting in prestige penalty if I refuse. Just doesn't seem fair or equitable.
Any ideas?

 

[ldevarga]

Can anyone explain how 'allies' decide which side they will join in a war between two of THEIR allies. Situation is this - I am Castille, allied to Portugal and France. I want to attack Aragon, which is also allied to Portugal and France. I have been improving their opinions of me to the max - and in both cases they have a better opinion of me than of Aragon, but as usual they have both sided with Aragon. It seems like the AI will always oppose the human player - or am I just being paranoid?
On the other hand, the AI is always asking me to join wars against my allies - resulting in prestige penalty if I refuse. Just doesn't seem fair or equitable.
Any ideas?

they will always join the defensive war. They will never help you attack an ally. (I'm 99% sure).

 

[fridabina]

they will always join the defensive war. They will never help you attack an ally. (I'm 99% sure).

Make that 100%.
Also if 2 allies declare on eachother, just accept one and i believe you don't lose prestige? Obviously if the agressor doesn't call you in you should lose prestige if you choose to not help the defending ally.

 

[Jorous]

You could attack someone else and call in france. Then, when you are in a war with france as an ally. You can declare on aragon. France can't join against you, because you are in a war with them.

 

[aitaituo]

they will always join the defensive war. They will never help you attack an ally. (I'm 99% sure).

Make that 100%.

This is a common misconception. The AI considers defensive calls to arms before offensive ones and therefore almost always sides with the defender, but if they decline the defensive CTA due to the usual reasons (debt, already involved in a war, etc), they can accept the offensive call to arms. Actually accepting the offensive call generally requires extremely high trust, though, to overcome all the negative modifiers.

 

[gothos]

Make that 100%.
Also if 2 allies declare on eachother, just accept one and i believe you don't lose prestige? Obviously if the agressor doesn't call you in you should lose prestige if you choose to not help the defending ally.

You'll get the defensive CTA first, so if you want to join the war on the attacker's side, you'll have to tank the prestige hit from refusing defensive first.
Not that the AI calls you in much anymore, sadly/thankfully.

 

[stevieji]

You could attack someone else and call in france. Then, when you are in a war with france as an ally. You can declare on aragon. France can't join against you, because you are in a war with them.

Thanks - that's the kind of devious, underhanded kind of thing I was looking for - otherwise it's just a complete stalemate, or you have to wait for someone to attack you. Portugal just rather foolishly made France their rival, so here goes...

 

[anomalacaris]

You could attack someone else and call in france. Then, when you are in a war with france as an ally. You can declare on aragon. France can't join against you, because you are in a war with them.

With 60 day timer gone one has to be careful not to end the war together with france too fast...

 

[ldevarga]

With 60 day timer gone one has to be careful not to end the war together with france too fast...

60 day timer is gone. If aragon is still allied to france and he ends the phony aragon will have a +30 defensive war modifier to call france in.

 

[Jorous]

With 60 day timer gone one has to be careful not to end the war together with france too fast...

Uhh, i forgot about that. Good point.

 

[Denkt]

Allies are great and nearly 100% assured to come to help you if your attacked.
You can easly check if they will join an aggresion war.
As a land power who have little need for diplo points can easly have like 8 allies or vassals meanig no one would wan't a war with you, allowing you to get all land you wan't, basicly a free to conquest pass.
An extra advantage is that allies don't get much aggressive expansion hit allowing you to have countries in the green relation even as you conquer the world.

 

[blasteg]

You'll get the defensive CTA first, so if you want to join the war on the attacker's side, you'll have to tank the prestige hit from refusing defensive first.
Not that the AI calls you in much anymore, sadly/thankfully.

Not really, you can wait for the attacking CTA to show up before replying the defensive one. You won;t need to refuse defensive one this way.

 

[ahyangyi]

Allies are great and nearly 100% assured to come to help you if your attacked.

I don't know. When France DoWed my Tunis, my ally Naples declined to help. Then after re-forming the alliance after losing the war, France DoWed Naples and I declined to help.
Maybe because it's France.

 

[jockedahl]

I feel allies are a lot more reliable this patch. In my Hannover game I've been allied to Brandenburg from start and it's now 1700. We both turned protestant and we share a border in North Germany. I helped them become Prussia too.

 

[Edz0r]

It seems they oppose the human player every time in this regard. But in my recent game, the Ottomans helped the Golden Horde to attack Crimea (being allied to both of them). So it seems that after the patch they atleast help other AI countries if their relationship is good enough.

 

[Ricox]

Allies are great and nearly 100% assured to come to help you if your attacked.

Can't agree. If an ally has high war exhaustion, big debts, poor relations/trust with the ally or involved in other wars - it can decline, and it actually happens often if your ally is dragged into other wars on a constant basis, even if it's winning, it still ends up racking WE & debts.

 

[ldevarga]

Can't agree. If an ally has high war exhaustion, big debts, poor relations/trust with the ally or involved in other wars - it can decline, and it actually happens often if your ally is dragged into other wars on a constant basis, even if it's winning, it still ends up racking WE & debts.

He did say nearly... how about "if there not in or recovering from another war, they will join your defensive wars."

 

[Denkt]

Can't agree. If an ally has high war exhaustion, big debts, poor relations/trust with the ally or involved in other wars - it can decline, and it actually happens often if your ally is dragged into other wars on a constant basis, even if it's winning, it still ends up racking WE & debts.

And you aren't helping him in his war?
Yes they can decline but they seldom do and if you have alot of allies like I have (7) then you can bet on that more then half will come at your defense, but who dow an great power with 7 allies.

 

[riknap]

And you aren't helping him in his war?
Yes they can decline but they seldom do and if you have alot of allies like I have (7) then you can bet on that more then half will come at your defense, but who dow an great power with 7 allies.

well, if you declare war on an HRE minor, and neglect to look at the emperor's allies...
it can go even further if the emperor is in a coalition against you