Unreformed Pagan conversions?

[Gurluas]

They really haven't, though; it's not supposed to be playable. It's "pre-reformed", which means that it has all the penalties of being unreformed but doesn't have the benefit of being able TO reform. It's simply a placeholder religion for historical characters, much like Roman culture is.

As has been suggested, if you really want to play a resurgent Hellenism, you should either download a mod or make your own. Otherwise the religion will never be fleshed out enough.

It's not fully pre-reformed though in a sense.
You can ask characters to convert, and it has a 20% organized religion moral authority bonus.
On the other hand.. It cannot make holy wars.

I don't like to use mods for something that should be available by default. I never asked for the religion to get it's own mechanics.
But it should be functional.

Similar to how Norse was before Old Gods was released.

 

[markmid]

Not a bug but it's odd, that nobody ever tries to convert, it's one of the first things I mod in, because it makes no sense in gameplay terms. Though like someone said try ancient religions reborn, it's got some nice features for hellenic

 

[Kapitalisti]

Not a bug but it's odd, that nobody ever tries to convert, it's one of the first things I mod in, because it makes no sense in gameplay terms. Though like someone said try ancient religions reborn, it's got some nice features for hellenic

The no conversion thing is there probably because the chances of an unreformed religion converting reformed ones is miniscule. No point in making the AI waste its seer.

 

[Zsrai]

It's not fully pre-reformed though in a sense.
You can ask characters to convert, and it has a 20% organized religion moral authority bonus.
On the other hand.. It cannot make holy wars.

I don't like to use mods for something that should be available by default. I never asked for the religion to get it's own mechanics.
But it should be functional.

Similar to how Norse was before Old Gods was released.

All of this is by design though. The devs obviously feel like the religion, which is in the game as a placeholder for historical rulers, is built and works how they want it. They don't feel like Hellenism should be as powerful as other religions. If you feel like it should be, then you should mod the game. After all these years, I don't see the devs changing their stance on Hellenism.

 

[markmid]

The no conversion thing is there probably because the chances of an unreformed religion converting reformed ones is miniscule. No point in making the AI waste its seer.

Over the course of the game, if you had 20 vassals all at 1 or 2% a year, that's a fair chance a county will change each year, over 10 years several counties. Take 1 holy site and that chance goes up. It's more done in vanilla to tweak balance reasons imho.

 

[Zsrai]

Over the course of the game, if you had 20 vassals all at 1 or 2% a year, that's a fair chance a county will change each year, over 10 years several counties. Take 1 holy site and that chance goes up. It's more done in vanilla to tweak balance reasons imho.

That's not how the system works. It's not a cumulative chance, it's 1% per year for each chaplain separately. You don't suddenly shoot up to 20-40% chance of a random county converting every year.

 

[markmid]

That's not how the system works. It's not a cumulative chance, it's 1% per year for each chaplain separately. You don't suddenly shoot up to 20-40% chance of a random county converting every year.

I know it's not cumulative, but it is still 20 vassals trying to convert an area all at 1% chance a year, if you look at the bigger picture of ruling a kingdom that still makes a gradual difference and is much better than nobody converting anything for you. Especially as it's AI chaplains so who cares if they get killed.

 

[Gurluas]

It's still stupid that even with moral authority nobody converts.
This also not even only affects Hellenic but every unreformed religion in the Pagan group.

It's very stupid. I'd rather have a lowered conversion chance modifier than the AI not even trying.

 

[Kapitalisti]

Again, that's what the developers have designed and if you don't like it, change it. The beauty of Paradox games is that it's extremely easy to mod a lot of things to your liking. I've had a lot of fun with the Ancient Religions mod restoring the only proper Roman Empire with Hellenic faith and Roman culture.

 

[Gurluas]

Again, that's what the developers have designed and if you don't like it, change it. The beauty of Paradox games is that it's extremely easy to mod a lot of things to your liking. I've had a lot of fun with the Ancient Religions mod restoring the only proper Roman Empire with Hellenic faith and Roman culture.

I play Ck2 in multiplayer with people, often random games.
Hence mods are not an option for me. I want Paradox to fix this issue properly. I figured out that all they need to do is add one line of code to the Hellenic religion and it'll work.

"ai_convert_other_group = 2 # always try to convert"

Also this proves it was an unintended bug. At one point they changed how the AI converts.
They simply forgot to add that line to the Hellenic religion since they don't usually touch it.

I guess all I can do is pray to the almighty Groogy for a fix.

 

[Zsrai]

I play Ck2 in multiplayer with people, often random games.
Hence mods are not an option for me. I want Paradox to fix this issue properly. I figured out that all they need to do is add one line of code to the Hellenic religion and it'll work.

"ai_convert_other_group = 2 # always try to convert"

Also this proves it was an unintended bug. At one point they changed how the AI converts.
They simply forgot to add that line to the Hellenic religion since they don't usually touch it.

I guess all I can do is pray to the almighty Groogy for a fix.

You do know that you can uncheck a mod when you are going to play MP, and then re-select it when you play SP? You don't install them over the base game.

Also, this is not an "issue" or an unintended bug. The devs designed the religion to work like that. I am not sure why, or even how, you can be in such denial about this at this point.

 

[Gurluas]

You do know that you can uncheck a mod when you are going to play MP, and then re-select it when you play SP? You don't install them over the base game.

Also, this is not an "issue" or an unintended bug. The devs designed the religion to work like that. I am not sure why, or even how, you can be in such denial about this at this point.

No they didn't. As I said, this was a change made later, and since they do not openly support the Hellenic religion, it wasn't adjusted to account for the change. It's different from working as intended.
It's more...Overlooked if anything.

Hence why I need to pray to Groogy, a single line of code, one little edit and this issue is fixed. And I play Hellenic in multiplayer, hence mods are useless.

 

[Kapitalisti]

Well there's no harm in praying as long as you don't expect results

 

[theStormWeaver]

No they didn't. As I said, this was a change made later, and since they do not openly support the Hellenic religion, it wasn't adjusted to account for the change. It's different from working as intended.
It's more...Overlooked if anything.

Hence why I need to pray to Groogy, a single line of code, one little edit and this issue is fixed. And I play Hellenic in multiplayer, hence mods are useless.

Bolded for emphasis.

 

[truth is life]

That's not how the system works. It's not a cumulative chance, it's 1% per year for each chaplain separately. You don't suddenly shoot up to 20-40% chance of a random county converting every year.

Assuming the chances of each county converting are independent, that rather reminds me of radioactive decays. That would suggest that conversions should obey the Poisson distribution law, which in turn suggests that having a lot of people trying to convert provinces will increase the probability of any province converting over a given timeframe.

In short: Yes, it is. The combination law is not simple addition, of course, but having many vassals trying to convert provinces will cumulatively increase the probability of counties converting, or equivalently the rate at which they convert.

 

[Gurluas]

Bolded for emphasis.

That doesn't mean they won't do minor changes in the dark.
Example being how the Hellenic religion was originally unable to ask rulers to convert.
That was added at one point. Openly just means they wont add Hellenic-specific features until Hellenic becomes something existing outside the Ruler designer and the title history.

 

[theStormWeaver]

That doesn't mean they won't do minor changes in the dark.
Example being how the Hellenic religion was originally unable to ask rulers to convert.
That was added at one point. Openly just means they wont add Hellenic-specific features until Hellenic becomes something existing outside the Ruler designer and the title history.

No, it means they don't support it at all.
The inability for pre-reformed religions to use the "Demand Religious Conversion" button was a deeper issue that was unfixable by mods.
This 'problem' is fixable by mods. Is fixed by mods. My mod, in fact, fixes it.

I sympathize with your position, but it is, like East Anglia in 867, indefensible.

 

[Gayhippo]

If a religion is bugged, in such a way playing it becomes completely unfeaseble, then that bug should be corrected, no matter how "minor" or "unimportant" that religion is. Yes the games do indeed focus on historical accuracy, and this, regrettebly, means that Abrahamic religions get most of the focus. Though regardless, dismissing Helenicism is just as bad as dismissing any religion that would give way historicly to the Christian scourge that sweept accros Europe through the turn of the millenium. The devs have supported other pagan religions, and the new earlier srtart date means Helenicism is more historicly relevant than it has ever been, and asking to have a bug fixed, to then have a whole community come down on you to say fuck you, your religion and choices in these game are irrelevant and unimportant, is just a sign of selfishness and cruelty.

 

[Jango40]

This does not affect only the Hellenics, but also all other unreformed pagans (So, Stormweaver and others, changing it for other pagans would automatically fix Hellenic and Generic Pagan conversion) - It's a stupid change/bug. Yes, they should be damn slow compared to reformed pagans and organized religions (Hence the ''Inferior at Conversion'' in the summary) but currently only the player can use the Diviner at all when playing pagan, which is just dumb and adds a disadvantage to the AI. (I don't think they even use the diviner for other purposes like researching cultural tech..)

 

[Zsrai]

If a religion is bugged [...]

The religion isn't bugged. This is not a bug. It's an intentional change. It may be a stupid change, like Jango44 says, and that's fine if you think so (I personally lean towards "stupid" as well), but it's intentional and not a bug. Paradox isn't persecuting people who want to play a Hellenic character. Hellenism is not meant to be playable. It is a flavor/placeholder religion for historical characters in the ERE historical ruler list. If you want a nice, fully fleshed out Hellenic religion than your options are to 1) Download a Mod or 2) Make a Mod.

Jango44- I'm fine with the change being reverted; I actually agree with it. I'm just unable to see how this was a "malicious" change to hurt the Hellenic religion, as some posters have put forward.