Unreformed Pagan conversions?

[Gurluas]

Is it just me, or do Unreformed Pagan AI not convert provinces anymore?
I was playing as game as the Hellenics, and after 300 years, the only provinces my AI vassals converted were some Slavic provinces that got taken.
Everything was converted used my priest even if the religion's moral authority is over 80.

It's not that the conversion rate is slow, it's non-existing.
This only affects Abrahamic religion provinces. Orthodox/Catholic/Sunni/Shia provinces just wont get converted by the AI.
Pagan provinces convert fine. It took 10 years for most of Ruthenia to go Hellenic.
But it's been 300 years and the only Hellenic provinces in Byzantium are those I converted using my priest.

Even with 80 religious authority, that's only a 13% chance per year or so.
It's painfully slow. The AI used to convert provinces before, sure it took a long time but they still did it.

 

[Shrano]

It probably is that it's slow. Unreformed pagans get a major penalty when it comes to converting reformed religions. Maybe you've had more luck because when you try to convert a province owned by a vassal, your vassal is probably trying to convert it as well.

 

[Gurluas]

It probably is that it's slow. Unreformed pagans get a major penalty when it comes to converting reformed religions. Maybe you've had more luck because when you try to convert a province owned by a vassal, your vassal is probably trying to convert it as well.

My problem is, my vassals haven't converted anything in over 300 years.
It's as if they're not trying at all. Every Orthodox/Catholic province in the Byzantine empire were converted solely by me.
So far I've converted about seven provinces. The Vassals have converted nothing, that was my problem.

 

[Shrano]

My problem is, my vassals haven't converted anything in over 400 years.
It's as if they're not trying at all. Every Orthodox/Catholic province in the Byzantine empire were converted solely by me.
So far I've converted about seven provinces. The Vassals have converted nothing, that was my problem.

It's possible that it's a bug with Hellenic pagan AI. I remember encountering such a bug before when I played with the Ancient Religions mod, though that bug was fixed. Now that I think about it, I remember seeing a post about the same thing with Hellenic pagans recently.

Do you remember if you were told anything when your vassal converted that Slavic county? There are events that do it automatically, one of which makes one's capital county the same religion and culture as its ruler.

 

[Gurluas]

It's possible that it's a bug with Hellenic pagan AI. I remember encountering such a bug before when I played with the Ancient Religions mod, though that bug was fixed. Now that I think about it, I remember seeing a post about the same thing with Hellenic pagans recently.

Do you remember if you were told anything when your vassal converted that Slavic county? There are events that do it automatically, one of which makes one's capital county the same religion and culture as its ruler.

The Vassals/AI just don't convert unless it's an unreformed pagan province.
As for the message, it was the usual one you get when a vassal converts a province.

Early in that game I married a countess who eventually expanded into a Hellenic Ruthenia. That Ruthenia became Hellenic within 10 years.
I gave up on that game due to the constant Iconoclast and Orthodox rebels. By the time I quit..
Crusades had been activated, and I narrowly survived a crusade by white peacing. Then Jihads and Tengri Great Holy War turned on too.
And I got chain revolts of Orthodox, Sunni, and Iconoclast rebels, who for some reason all stacked in the same province.
Resulting in 20k rebels in a single province, who is mountain too.
And my levies are depleted too. So I couldn't really do anything. Even if I somehow deal with those rebels, there is no way I can match the gigantic Abbasid blob, or the Khazar blob without any holy orders.
I don't even have the Varangian guard. If I didn't have to deplete my levies with those constant 5-8k rebels, I could have done better though.

Hence I want to find out how to deal with this issue for the next game. If it's a bug it should be fixed.

 

[Kapitalisti]

Indeed the AI will not use their chaplains to convert other religious groups as a Hellenic pagan since they do not have the "ai_convert_other_group = 2 # always try to convert" line in their code. All pagans however have the "ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert" line so they'll try to convert other pagans if I understand the code right. I suggest you try out the Ancient Religions mod that fixes that and adds a lot more stuff to the religion.

 

[Gurluas]

Indeed the AI will not use their chaplains to convert other religious groups as a Hellenic pagan since they do not have the "ai_convert_other_group = 2 # always try to convert" line in their code. All pagans however have the "ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert" line so they'll try to convert other pagans if I understand the code right. I suggest you try out the Ancient Religions mod that fixes that and adds a lot more stuff to the religion.

This must have been a recent thing though.
I played many games as Hellenics a few patches ago and it worked fine.
So I hope the devs will fix this, I do not want to rely on mods.

 

[Zohtun]

To be fair, Hellenism isn't exactly supposed to be played...it's mainly a history files thing, like "Pagan (Pagan)".

 

[ragnarok246]

Ancient Religions Reborn. I would check it out before dismissing it: link.

 

[Gurluas]

To be fair, Hellenism isn't exactly supposed to be played...it's mainly a history files thing, like "Pagan (Pagan)".

They should still fix accidental bugs so it remains playable in the state it was when it was released.
Generic Pagan is furthermore not only for thr history files.
The demon child event gives you generic Pagan courtiers, and the 1067 startdate has a Generic Pagan courtier.
Regrettably they still haven't added a way to play Hellenics in Ironman with Achievements. :/

 

[Kapitalisti]

They should still fix accidental bugs so it remains playable in the state it was when it was released.

It's not a bug, it's working as intended. The Hellenic faith is meant only for the history files. So if you want to play with it effectively, you need to either use mods or mod it yourself.

 

[Zohtun]

They should still fix accidental bugs so it remains playable in the state it was when it was released.
Generic Pagan is furthermore not only for thr history files.
The demon child event gives you generic Pagan courtiers, and the 1067 startdate has a Generic Pagan courtier.
Regrettably they still haven't added a way to play Hellenics in Ironman with Achievements. :/

I suppose. I also have seen parts of Mali ruled by Pagan (Pagan) rulers as well. No I'm not sure how they arose, just they did. Usually they soon fall to either the Christians or Muslims surrounding them, but one game their only neighbour (in all directions due to how I'd expanded) was me. So they survived for quite a long time before I got sick of their raids and flattened them.

 

[Gurluas]

It's not a bug, it's working as intended. The Hellenic faith is meant only for the history files. So if you want to play with it effectively, you need to either use mods or mod it yourself.

It's not working as intended.
Stop being selfish! Ok you don't want to give us features, fine, but stop saying bugs are working as intended.

But I suppose I should make an official bugreport.

Also...Eh?
I didn't know Generic Pagans could raid? o.o

 

[Kapitalisti]

It's not working as intended.
Stop being selfish! Ok you don't want to give us features, fine, but stop saying bugs are working as intended.

If you'd check the religion file, you'd notice that only the reformed pagans have the line that makes the AI use chaplains to convert. And since Hellenic is not reformed (it's "pre-reformed" which also means it won't show up on the ledger) it gets lumped to the same category as unreformed religions as far as conversion goes. Again, use a mod to change that if you want. I really don't see how I'm being "selfish"...

 

[Gurluas]

If you'd check the religion file, you'd notice that only the reformed pagans have the line that makes the AI use chaplains to convert. And since Hellenic is not reformed (it's "pre-reformed" which also means it won't show up on the ledger) it gets lumped to the same category as unreformed religions as far as conversion goes. Again, use a mod to change that if you want. I really don't see how I'm being "selfish"...

Because this is a bug, and you're selfish because you ask me to mod the game to fix a bug just because you do not like the Hellenic religion.

And it is a bug.

This was taken in an earlier patch, as you can see, the Vassals have no problem converting provinces, even if it is slow..Which is ok.

 

[Zsrai]

It is not a bug when the devs have actually changed the code in the files. It would be a bug if the code didn't work but since it is working, it is, as they say, Working As Designed.

Also I have no idea why you are taking this as a personal attack. Relax, you're not being persecuted here.

 

[Gurluas]

It is not a bug when the devs have actually changed the code in the files. It would be a bug if the code didn't work but since it is working, it is, as they say, Working As Designed.

Also I have no idea why you are taking this as a personal attack. Relax, you're not being persecuted here.

Sorry I've had bad experiences with this stuff...But I'm pretty sure it is a bug. Maybe something changed with how conversions are handled.
The devs don't seem interesting in touching Hellenic, so I don't think they'd purpousedly create a malicious feature for a religion you can't use without ruler designer.

 

[Zsrai]

Sorry I've had bad experiences with this stuff...But I'm pretty sure it is a bug. Maybe something changed with how conversions are handled.
The devs don't seem interesting in touching Hellenic, so I don't think they'd purpousedly create a malicious feature for a religion you can't use without ruler designer.

It's not Hellenic specific. Kapitalisti said, in post #6:

Indeed the AI will not use their chaplains to convert other religious groups as a Hellenic pagan since they do not have the "ai_convert_other_group = 2 # always try to convert" line in their code. All pagans however have the "ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert" line so they'll try to convert other pagans if I understand the code right. I suggest you try out the Ancient Religions mod that fixes that and adds a lot more stuff to the religion.

The Devs made a change that affects ALL Pagan religions; the fact that it neuters Hellenic conversions is an intended change because they wanted ALL pre-/unreformed Pagans to not convert non-Pagan counties.

Again, this is not a bug but an intentional change to the entire Pagan religious group.

 

[Gurluas]

Oh...That's terrible!
The Hellenic faith is special though, because in many ways it's like a reformed religion, so I'm sure they've made a mistake.

 

[Zsrai]

Oh...That's terrible!
The Hellenic faith is special though, because in many ways it's like a reformed religion, so I'm sure they've made a mistake.

They really haven't, though; it's not supposed to be playable. It's "pre-reformed", which means that it has all the penalties of being unreformed but doesn't have the benefit of being able TO reform. It's simply a placeholder religion for historical characters, much like Roman culture is.

As has been suggested, if you really want to play a resurgent Hellenism, you should either download a mod or make your own. Otherwise the religion will never be fleshed out enough.