Unpopular opinion - The current mission tree system has fundamental flaws and shouldnt be carried over to EU V

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Arizal

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The new mission system added something that was badly needed: direction. Previously you'd play a new nation and have a pretty vague idea of what your goals were. Take Provence as an example. Previously you knew you wanted to defeat France, and maybe push king Rene's claims if you knew about them. But now a player can pick almost any great or regional power and have a sense of direction.
That's an interesting point. I can entertain the thought that for a player, missions bring short time goals and restrict what you ought to do in a sea of possibilities. It makes you use the mechanics as if your ruler had some kind of overall objective.

However, do missions have to be... historical?

I am an anti missions because they are "railroading". What I don't like is that they seem to present single(s) path(s) to countries. No matter how much definite missions thhe devs add, there will never be enough to represent the wealth of situation a ruler of this era could see himself into. At the same time, forcing countries to go in "historical" paths, and sometimes even ahistorical chosen patths detracts from how the game is currently playing. Goals are fine, but, as someone told, if as England you united with France and decided to conquer Europe, maybe you should have less missions about colonies.

The solution, it seems to me, has been in our face forever, and has been neglected since the introduction of the current mission system. They are called "generic missions". People don't like them because there are so few of them and so little variety. However, if you add randomly generated missions to the mix and make the every mission into a random one, and when the hat fits a generated mission would have the localization of the current missions, that would make two things : first, you could have far more missions per country than currently (and every path would be open), to the point that outside world conquest scenarios, a country would never run out of missions; second, it would shut down criticism from people like me since what would matter would be the strategic opportunity (that might sometimes resemble history) instead of a forced outcome.

How could such a thing be achieved? Well, probably not in EUIV, since the shadow of EUV frows larger every day, but as I explained a bit earlier, to me every conquest mission could easily be made into cultural, religion and proximity ones where X region is targeted because of those reasons. Permanent claims should only be a thing for cultural groups (if they have any purppose at all). I don't have a very good knowledge of other types of missions because I rarely focus on them, but increasing devs and constructing particular buildings in your capital also sound like easily generalizable.

But, will you say, we'll lose that sense of direction if every country can have missions for whatever he wants. That's where OP suggestion comes in handy. If you can, like in Imperator, choose a specific mission "focus", maybe with reminders that a focus or another has "historical", "content fueled" missions, then you would still have a humanly comprehensible tree to attack. You would complete a few branches (maybe up to three at the same time) and then choose new ones among a choice, so that you don't run out of things to do, but aren't either constricted into betraying your allies.
 
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Kapi96

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eh, based on CK3 so far there's basically 0% chance it will be ported over to EU5 at launch. After EU5 has been out for 2-3 years however it may be added as a DLC.
 
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Arizal

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eh, based on CK3 so far there's basically 0% chance it will be ported over to EU5 at launch. After EU5 has been out for 2-3 years however it may be added as a DLC.
On the contrary. When they made EUIV, they kept most of the events and decisions. I imagine missons are in the same category.

However, since they expressed their that they didn't like missions after all, they may not be transfered at all if they go the Victoria 3 way.
 

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On the contrary. When they made EUIV, they kept most of the events and decisions. I imagine missons are in the same category.

However, since they expressed their that they didn't like missions after all, they may not be transfered at all if they go the Victoria 3 way.
They wont go the Victoria 3 way since EU4 actually has a big audience and cant get away with such radical changes unless its 100% superior to the previous one in every way.
 

Arizal

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They wont go the Victoria 3 way since EU4 actually has a big audience and cant get away with such radical changes unless its 100% superior to the previous one in every way.
That’s a good point, though in hope they could at least tweak their method to make the game more realistic and less railroaded.

What I understand is that a lot of work has gone into making national ideas and mission trees. It’s probably unrealistic in the EU franchise to scrap all that, but they could recycle a big chunk of that by adding generic missions bridging the gap between railroaded missions and dynamic missions.
 
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leefnmajors

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I actually liked the way they did it with Imperator, where you could get larger, much more dynamic missions that gave you an opportunity to choose where to focus. You could pick, say, as Rome, whether you wanted to go pick a fight with Carthage or focus on the prosperity of Italy first, then you got a mission tree based off that. It didn't preclude you from doing the other trees, but it gave you SOMETHING to focus on. From there, based on choices, you moved forward.
 
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Terixis

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I like the current mission tree system, but sometimes they go way too far out there like requiring Austria to blob into Canton for some bizarre reason. The more recent ones from Leviathan and Origins are better designed imo.
 

Arizal

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I like the current mission tree system, but sometimes they go way too far out there like requiring Austria to blob into Canton for some bizarre reason. The more recent ones from Leviathan and Origins are better designed imo.
Actually, Austria has to go in Bengal and Australia. Australia cannot be a vassal’s colony either.
 

Terixis

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Actually, Austria has to go in Bengal and Australia. Australia cannot be a vassal’s colony either.
Austria needs land in Bengal and a colony in Australia but they need to be the strongest trade power in Canton or Hangzhou to get the mission for the Australian colony, which usually requires conquering Canton for the COT. But I guess you could brute force it with ships especially if Ming imploded.
 

Arizal

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Austria needs land in Bengal and a colony in Australia but they need to be the strongest trade power in Canton or Hangzhou to get the mission for the Australian colony, which usually requires conquering Canton for the COT. But I guess you could brute force it with ships especially if Ming imploded.
Or simply occupy the place.

Anyway, my solution about mission trees would be to upgrade the interface for them to be dynamic, to copy past all nation-specific missions, and to give to most of them relative triggers. Instead of improving X province, improve a capital province or the one just below that. Instead of « conquer Y region », conquer a land with one of the country’ culture in it and have as a reward an adjacent claim.

And kill PUs missions, of course.
 
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Jespoke

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I like most of the things about the current form of mission trees, except for Restoration of Union CB's aside from a select few cases.
While I wouldn't agree with making them random, I do like the idea here of making them less Tree-like, so that doing out of order or skipping parts would be much more feasible. You could still have some missions locked behind others where neccesary, and overlap some of the conditions to make the big payoffs that would normally be deep in the tree have big conditions for completion instead.
 
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Arizal

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@Jespoke My idea isn’t so much making them random, the national mission trees could stay (that’s the design compromise I would be willing to accept), but in addition, any country could take missions inspired from the others. Those missions would self actualise so that you don’t run out of them.

I’m proposing an extension of the underused « generic missions » feature, one that would allow countries to go past their historical roles.

France would still have its mission tree, but it would have in addition other missions inspired from Korean, English, British, etc. missions. Those would however be written in a generic manner.

With a revised UI allowing to select focuses for your missions, you could from time to time stumble on your normal mission tree, and some other go in another direction.
 

Arizal

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  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
This is some pretty high IQ stuff right here, but the generic mission trees would be a bit of a hassle, you'd have to make a lot more missions.
That's why I'm suggesting to reuse the personalized ones, but by adapting them so that they become generic. The triggers would be similar and the effects would be the same.
 
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