-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Or Guam and Hong Kong
I thought about this for a while and realized that well, at least now we have new top priorities for the japanese player; take Hong Kong, Macao, Guam and Singapore ASAP so that allies cannot ruin your shipping
So in a way that is an improvement compared to HOI2
Originally Posted by Lennartos View Post
Naval AI range are limited to each fleets range from each friendly port (it checks wich ports is closest to target province and then checks range) - This also applies for transports.
Consider this scenario:
Germany controls Gibraltar.
Italy, Japan and Germany are Axis.
So a SU player could expect an invasion from Italy or Germany in Vladivostok is that correct??
Naval AI range are limited to each fleets range from each friendly port (it checks wich ports is closest to target province and then checks range) - This also applies for transports.
Consider this scenario:
Germany controls Gibraltar.
Italy, Japan and Germany are Axis.
So a SU player could expect an invasion from Italy or Germany in Vladivostok is that correct??
If GER or ITA want to do so, theoretically yes. But I think the AI will be somehow taught not to go thus far from its "core" area of operations...
Interesting point. I'd suggest, however, to keep a minimum range that could allow a US transport fleet starting from Hawaii to reach more than a Japanese island chain in the Pacific (not only e.g. the Solomons), letting Japan guess a bit about the target of American invasion if Japan itself owns more or less the same islands as it did IRL. Though IRL the Solomons were pretty much the only possibility US had to start an island-hopping campaign and Japan knew it too...
The Japanese built their air base on Guadalcanal with the intention to disrupt shipping lines between USA and Australia, which'd have to make a detour to avoid the Japanese. A move further south by the Japanese might have cut these lines entirely and threaten Australia and New Zealand. And this wasn't tolerable by the Americans, so the stage was set...
In HOI2 the only eligible port next to Guadalcanal which is below 1000 km is Port Moresby. But the Americans used some nearby island as their base which is in game terms only a harbour and not a naval base. But for the game we have to give transports a larger range than irl, to keep it playable. Since the landing on Guadalcanal happened in 1942 we can argue that they have already researched several techs which increased their range. If we assume that transports start with a invasion range of e.g. 100 km and add more range (+300?) via research (e.g. using the Marine Division techs), then we'd be on the right track?
On the other hand if we could rebase to every harbour we could use more appropriate ranges. As naval units operated irl out of every eligible port and returned only for repairs and upgrades to the larger naval bases this'd make the game more realistic. This might add also some complexity, but it might be worth it.
Sadly, the game mixes landing craft and long range transport ships, i.e. passenger liners, together into one unit. The only similarity between these ships is, that they can transport troops. Honestly, this could be modelled better with a seperation in two different unit types. Although the devs haven't mentioned something similar i hope they have taken the time to do it...
Your words are better than mine.
+1
And you're right, it's quite irritating to see in the late game, that all your - irl rather short-ranged - warships have a larger range than your transports.
The best solution is imo the separation of landing craft and long range transport ships in two different unit types.
This would however make greater naval bases less important, and would force e.g. Japan to conquer every single tiny island in the Pacific just to avoid being invaded pretty everywhere. However, although a big change in the game's dynamics, maybe it would be more realistic - and interesting indeed.
Yep, IMO the best thing to do for now is to wait what the dev team has decided to do with that. In the meantime, we could start a thread to brainstorm a good solution to the naval invasions problem.
What about coming up with a Landing Craft BDE for attachment to Transports? Require research in Marine Tech to get the first BDE, further levels in Marine Tech to get better Landing Craft. Without a landing craft BDE, transports can only 'transport'.
How about a Refuel BDE for Transports? They could be used to further the range (oil and supply) of fleets that they were attached to. Create a new Naval Tech to get that BDE. I don't know that I'd want to slow down my Battle or Carrier Fleets with a slow Transport, but it would be an option.
If the Helicopter BDE ever gets off the ground... how about attaching them to the Light Carriers? There effect would be to give a greater reduction in Amphibious Assault penalties.
How about a Refuel BDE for Transports? They could be used to further the range (oil and supply) of fleets that they were attached to. Create a new Naval Tech to get that BDE. I don't know that I'd want to slow down my Battle or Carrier Fleets with a slow Transport, but it would be an option.
If the Helicopter BDE ever gets off the ground... how about attaching them to the Light Carriers? There effect would be to give a greater reduction in Amphibious Assault penalties.
That is what they did: capture every tiny coral island. Often only with a token garrison ofc. The same should you as Japan do.
If we get the game we'll see how they changed it. Atm i'm hoping for a new megathread....
That might be worthwhile. This bde and its assorting techs could give you a modifier for your amphibous assaults. Without them you'd better never enter a transport...
That'd be better handled directly by researching some naval doctrines. Base Strike - as always - would be a good choice.
I like your idea. You might remember that they used later their non-angled CVs as Assault Carriers or ASW Carriers, which based several choppers on board. Honestly, the older CVs shouldn't be able to base jet fighters on them.
Yes, the only problem being that in AoD we won't have regiments or bataillons (luckily
), so if Japan would like to occupy all of those islands would waste a hell of MP. It's also true that in life, if you want something you have to spend something into it
Yes, the only problem being that in AoD we won't have regiments or bataillons (luckily
It should be enough to capture the island in a larger island group which gives you a VP; you'd get automatically control over the complete island group. If you want a garrison there, it's your choice. But if it's part of your defensive perimeter then you'd better defend it - otherwise expand further.
Hey, thats a great idea. And to keep things simple I suggest this:
Keep transports similar in every way except the time that it takes for them to land troops: increase that VERY much; to something like a week. Make it so that having a landing craft brigade decreases this time substantially.
This way you/AI *could* use transports just like you used to, but it would be slow and they would be very vulnerable.
I also like the idea of extra fuel tanks.
Edit: the BDE would be nice but this might work even with just having the normal shore landing time be something like a week and it would be 25% less per marine tech level (and 50% less per level if the landing unit is a marine). This should make early game global invasions more dangerous and rare.
Last edited:
You need to research both doctrines and naval unit techs to be able to build transports whose range increases over time. Related doctrines allow you to build marines, improve amphibious assault bonuses etc. IIRC to get to the stage the Allies were by 43/44 you need to research around 10 techs.
CORE tech tree is hugely more complex than vanilla -so this might all sound a bit odd in comparison - but it is such an improvement IMHO.
Thanks for the answer. Sounds good, indeed. We´ll see how AoD will develop in this regard
Thanks for the answer. Sounds good, indeed. We´ll see how AoD will develop in this regard
And even if AOD doesn't move enough in this direction, we can resort to playing core.
Although the core team moved on to HOI3 we can expect to see a port of core 0.4 to AOD. Maybe from the same guys who are adjusting core for the E3 map.