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StephenT

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***Paying a flying visit since I saw this thread***

Guard units were meant to represent elite divisions of any kind - we just needed a catch-all name for them. In the British Army, for example, the six Regular Army divisions that made up the original BEF would be Guards; later on, the Canadians and ANZACs would be too. For France, the Coloniale divisions were the Guards.

What distinguishes these units was that they had hand-picked men, who would often be volunteers rather than conscripts, with high morale and excellent motivation.

In other words, in game terms organisation and morale should be much higher than standard INF. Attack and defence strength wouldn't be that different, since Guards units generally had the same level of equipment as normal infantry divisions. You might be justified in giving them an extra point or two. Guards units were frequently used as shocktroops, at the spearhead of a major offensive, so a higher attack strength would be more important than defence.

Plus, unless the tech files have been changed since I last saw them, the Imperial German Stormtrooper divisions of Opreation Michael were classed as 1917 Guard Infantry, and they should definitely have high attack value.
 

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In the next release, Guards will be slightly improved.
 

TheLand

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I think it is possible to make a number of tweaks to the naval units from 0.41 to give a more historical feel.

*Pre-Dreadnoughts, Improved Pre-Dreadnoughts, Armoured Cruisers and Ironclads should have much lower Sea Attack.
*Max ranges should be revised downwards, particularly for all pre-1910ish models, even more particularly for pr-1905 models. Obviously this creates a 'boundary' problem with the 5km minimum firing distance (a long range for an 1890s torpedo boat!)
*Visibility should be increased and fuel expenditure decreased (to 0) for coal-firing ships, ie. most early models

I am working on a set of updated naval ship files for this, using existing models, and might have a play to see if the naval OOBs make more sense.
 

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Please post some italy heavy weapons and artilery + italy mountain division + some aircraft + light division

(Sorry my bad english)
 

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I want to put brigade pics to austria hungary how i ad them
ill_bri_(austria?)_1_1 what name i use to put them i mean what name i use

ill_bri_SWE_1_1 <-- like that
 
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Tegetthoff

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Moolle said:
How can i put pictures to Ging empire
i tryed put them this way ill_div_CHI_0_1
is that text right
ill_div.... are the ilustrations you see in the production screen and when you select a division.

Be careful with such things if you do not know what you are doing ....
 

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Can someone post some italian division pics
 
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unmerged(78196)

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Moolle said:
I want to put brigade pics to austria hungary how i ad them
ill_bri_(austria?)_1_1 what name i use to put them i mean what name i use

ill_bri_SWE_1_1 <-- like that
U11 is the tag we use in this mod for Austria-Hungary as it is a new addition that did not exist in the original game, so look for files that look like ill_bri_U11_1_1. Filenames containing AUS are related to Austria, which is included in the game but don't mix it up with Austria-Hungary -> U11.
 

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thanks
Can somebody post more austrian pics?

And more ottoman pictures ? :rolleyes:
 
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unmerged(78196)

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There are two big issues I would like to set on the agenda:

The first one is the balance of the ship models. A fleet composed of destroyers will beat any other fleet equal in costs. Some testruns today have shown, that 20-24 DDs (1905) crush 8 BBs (1910), 1911 DDs would perform even better as they have twice the defence of the 1905 model. Yet even 1911 DDs are 12 times cheaper than one BB. That completely spoils any balance.

It seems that the DDs' speed makes up for their short range which turns them into cheap and fast to build submarine, aircraft and ship killers. To make up for their extensive costs and vulnerability against subs and air attacks, battleships should give more bang per buck than any other ship.

It is far to easy at the moment for any great power just to build hundreds of modern DDs in a few months and hunt down all the slow outdated ships of the others, basically ruling the oceans.

Thus, I propose to adjust the IC cost of DDs and CLs to the same level as the respective BB model without changing building time and reducing Sea attack values for both types by 50%. I feel that such a nerf is needed to make building battleships, or any of the bigger ship classes, worth the effort. I have send v.Manstein edited versions of the ship files and maybe he will put them into the next dev. Yet I feel that such a big change should be discussed, maybe you do not agree or you have better ideas to address this issue, so feel free to comment on this.

The second problem is that land battles are too short in general, which causes too few casualties and allows for WWII style blitz-wars. I have not played around with attack values yet, but several people said, that there are plenty of other mods with lower attack values and battles lasting days or weeks, so we might just adopt a working system for now and improve details later. Any ideas on this topic are welcome as well.
 

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I think sometimes the knowledge of the old hoi1 TGW modders has been lost as you all here often often going over many similar questions that were already answered by the TGW mod.I know there are a lot of differences and extras with hoi2 compared to hoi1 but some things are similar.

In TGW land battles were really long battles of attrition and very costly and represented the WW1 combat well I thought.

As for Guards/elite divisions not only were guards superior to regular infantry the cost more to build and supply but there were 2 types of guards models to solve your problem.

MODEL_2_0;Guards Infantry;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_2_1;Attack Division;;;;;;;;;;x
The attack division(generic name) was of course slightly more heavy hitting than the regular guards and as playing as Germany it was translated as Sturmtruppen in the German models.
But maybe you guys have done this already?Anyway i am unsure because i do not have 1914 installed at the moment .I am sure you have it all in hand but just in case i thought i would mention it?

Dr
 

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Yes, let us reduce attack power in the upcoming versions.
Is there anybody who can adjust the values?
 

Tegetthoff

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v.Manstein said:
Yes, let us reduce attack power in the upcoming versions.
Is there anybody who can adjust the values?
I am thinking of reworking the infantry tech tree (add one or two division types between 1897 and 1912). This will mean reworking all unit stats anyway, so if does not have to be for 0.43, I can take a look at it
 

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Good Idea.

To be honest, I am quite unsatisfiied with the current state of 0.5 development, as we haven't moved away from changing little things without starting at the roots of some problems. Furthermore, I havent heard anything from hmatthias for a while now.
 

TheLand

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CookieCollector said:
The first one is the balance of the ship models. A fleet composed of destroyers will beat any other fleet equal in costs. Some testruns today have shown, that 20-24 DDs (1905) crush 8 BBs (1910), 1911 DDs would perform even better as they have twice the defence of the 1905 model. Yet even 1911 DDs are 12 times cheaper than one BB. That completely spoils any balance.
Were the battleships screened with destroyers of their own?

If not, they had it coming.

Unscreened battleships were critically vulnerable to destroyer and torpedo boat attack. Destroyers versus unscreened battleships must be a one-sided.

Please run tests against battleships in balanced fleets before proposing sweeping modifications to the naval warfare system!
 

unmerged(78196)

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I have made more testruns to check TheLand's valid objection. This time 60 DDs (1905) fought against 3 BBs (1911/16), 5 CLs (1914) and 12 DDs (1895/1900). Those two fleets are about equal in IC/day-costs, techs were the same for both sides.

At first I was surprised by how well the mixed fleet worked out, they killed the whole destroyer fleet not losing a single ship. The distance was always perfect for the battleships, so the destroyers could not do anything.

Then however I realized how incredibly important the leader's skill is. When the mixed fleet wiped out the destroyers, they were commanded by a skill 3 grand admiral while the destroyers were led by a skill 2 grand admiral.

So I appointed a better leader for the destroyer fleet (skill 3 grand admiral). Then, the destroyers completely crushed the mixed fleet losing only 2 out of 60 ships and distance was always perfect for them, no matter who was attacking.

Beside such simulations, which are always flawed in some way and can never reflect a 'real' battle in full detail, I think personal experience should be taken into consideration as well. I have played both original hoi and 1914 a number of times and by far the easiest and quickest way to gain control of the seas was to build hordes of destroyers and hunt down the enemies' fleet.

What do we learn? Destroyers are indeed terribly overpowered in battles granting equal conditions, even against screened battleships, yet leader skill, weather or other influences can make up for this. I am still convinced that DDs need a serious nerf but I would not mind if you prove me wrong.
 

TheLand

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I suspect that result will also be a little sensitive to the generation of the destroyers on the battleships' side. If the defending 12 destroyers can fire back I would expect higher casualties among the attacking destroyers and I think in the example you took those ships were out of range.

I am not totally stuck to the values or build costs currently in the mod - I tested them more to see the interaction of the starting fleets and less to see if there was a dominant strategy.

In some circumstances it should be possible for destroyers to very efficiently kill battleships. However, it should be difficult to engineer those circumstances - certainly more difficult than big stack + good leader.

The problem is inherited from vanilla, where it is also very easy for a good leader to close with an enemy fleet. It is a difficult one to sort out because you can either balance the game for historical satisfaction but assuming non-optimal play (as was my intention with the current ship stats), or you can balance the game for optimal play but at the expense of flavour or historicity, which I think is your suggestion.

What happens if there is equal skill on either side of the battle?
 

unmerged(78196)

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With skill 3 grand admirals on either side (one had no treats, the other one was a seawolf, but that should not have any effect) the destroyers always got into close range and wiped out the mixed fleet.

Flavour is what makes the mod so appealing, I'd rather stick to historical values over gameplay. I just hoped we could find a good compromise that makes battleships worth their extensive costs.

Even if sea attack, defense, range, speed and costs are based on historical values, we might modify the ships' organization to balance them without interferring with historical facts. Wouldn't it make sense to set the ships's organization proportional to their tonnage? I do not know how this would work out, but it might be an option that does not lower the flavour of the mod. What do you think?
 

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Should we reduce command limits? Part of the problem may be that huge destroyer stacks can be commanded by a Grand Admiral without stacking penalty.