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5rgj

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Hi, as the UK I was defending Venice from a German attack. Just before the defending divisions ran out of org I managed to land 3 fresh divisions via the port. However, a couple of ticks later all 6 divisions retreated. I checked the stats for the newly landed divisions and they were 100% str and 100% org. I am sure I've shipped in reinforcements in the nick of time before. Is this a bug or a game mechanic? Thanks
 

Count Blue

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Hi, as the UK I was defending Venice from a German attack. Just before the defending divisions ran out of org I managed to land 3 fresh divisions via the port. However, a couple of ticks later all 6 divisions retreated. I checked the stats for the newly landed divisions and they were 100% str and 100% org. I am sure I've shipped in reinforcements in the nick of time before. Is this a bug or a game mechanic? Thanks
In order for such replacements to work they have to join the fight.
They dont do that if you just land them.
It takes a few in game hours for them to join the battle.

This can be seen in the battlescreen.
Such units are "in reserve" for a short while before the join the battle.
It can be one hour or some more.

If the fighting regiments are reaching ORG Level <1 within that timeslot, all will retreat.
 
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50shadesofgreen

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I think you needed a high skill corps leader to help speed those new units into the combat quicker. Also there's a minister who boosts combat reinforcement chance.
 
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Kovax

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There's also a tech that you can unlock in the Infantry doctrines group which adds 5% per hour to the odds of reinforcement, both offensively and defensively. Considering that a decent Corps commander within one province will only add +2-3%, that's a serious boost. Until I can research that, it pays to have high-skill Corps commanders; after that, they're not that important.
 
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5rgj

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Thanks for the advice. I was aware of the reinforcement chance skill boost from corps commanders and the doctrine, and I had thought that increasing the reinforcement chance has got to be a good thing. However, I had not seen any obvious issues with slow reinforcement - until now! Yet another research priority added to the list ;-)
 
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Kovax

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I've seen units arrive a couple of hours AFTER the defending units broke, and they also auto-retreated. There seems to be some amount of delay until it resets, just like a unit that was recently attacked being stuck with a "Defending" order for the next few hours before it can counter-attack or move.
 
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j_k_k

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Yeah, I've learned to be very careful about sending units to move into provinces under attack. If the current defenders lose and have to retreat, the reinforcements may also have to retreat. What I do in those cases is just have the losing units retreat in advance, then issue the new units a move order to the province (provided I won't mind having them begin a new attack when the enemy gets there first). If not, it's time to start gathering forces for the counterattack from several different directions if possible--and then ideally all at once, taking advantage of the added combat width contributed by each province after the first one.
 
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50shadesofgreen

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There's also a tech that you can unlock in the Infantry doctrines group which adds 5% per hour to the odds of reinforcement, both offensively and defensively. Considering that a decent Corps commander within one province will only add +2-3%, that's a serious boost. Until I can research that, it pays to have high-skill Corps commanders; after that, they're not that important.

I've not seen the Corps Commander reinforement boost quantified before. Is that 1% per skill level (or 0.5%)? The land doctrine boost is visible at 5% (attack AND defence). The politician boost is 10% ( attack OR defence). As you say, knowing how low the Commander benefit is, would make his boost almost irrelevant.

There's also a rumoured reinforcement boost from having high org units, but again that's not quantified anywhere.
 
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Kovax

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The boost from the Corps commander is a bit more difficult to quantify, because it appears to depend on distance from the combat as well as skill. If the commander is in the same province as the combat units, he provides his bonus at (I vaguely recall) either 0.5% or 1.0% per skill level. That decreases substantially if he's in an adjacent province, and drops to a relative pittance if any further away (still within command range), but it still beats the 0.4% base chance. I don't think I've ever seen the odds increase more than a small amount from the ministerial traits, but I could be wrong. The doctrine definitely boosts the odds substantially, to the point where Corps commander skill becomes a fairly minor concern. The difference between 0.4% odds and 2.4% odds is pretty drastic; the difference between 5.4% and 7.4% isn't all that spectacular.
 

50shadesofgreen

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So unless your low skill Corps Commander is actually in the pile, he's actually fairly pointless as far as his skill goes. I use combat units in HQs as an extra division but I need to re-think how this works with regards to defensive lines, when the guys are not always adjacent to the boss.
 

Corugi

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That decreases substantially if he's in an adjacent province, and drops to a relative pittance if any further away
Yet another thing to add to my ever increasing list of "things I didn't know about hoi3 although I have played it for years."

This business about sending units into reinforce a battle which then get auto-retreated when the defending unit breaks really came home to bite me on the bum one time. It was defending as Russia with the June 41 scenario on very hard. With battles going on all along most of the front I became very wary about such attempts, having suffered some catastrophic losses when a fresh stack would auto-retreat right into the path of advancing Panzers and get wiped.

WIPED! WIPED OUT OF EXISTENCE! JUST LIKE ARMY GROUP PALESTINE!

Trying to micromanage the confused fighting with so many units in such a long and chaotic front made me refuse such attempts in the end. Particularly with the weird shit you mentioned about the delay, seeing them go in after the defeat and then getting auto-retreated anyway. I lost a lot of Comrades to the advancing Nazi hordes in that manner. The standard operating procedure became one of just not attempting to reinforce a battle underway. Unless it was absolutely critical, of course. Otherwise it was too much to try looking after, hour by the hour.
 
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phantomrider

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Yet another thing to add to my ever increasing list of "things I didn't know about hoi3 although I have played it for years."

This business about sending units into reinforce a battle which then get auto-retreated when the defending unit breaks really came home to bite me on the bum one time. It was defending as Russia with the June 41 scenario on very hard. With battles going on all along most of the front I became very wary about such attempts, having suffered some catastrophic losses when a fresh stack would auto-retreat right into the path of advancing Panzers and get wiped.

WIPED! WIPED OUT OF EXISTENCE! JUST LIKE ARMY GROUP PALESTINE!

Trying to micromanage the confused fighting with so many units in such a long and chaotic front made me refuse such attempts in the end. Particularly with the weird shit you mentioned about the delay, seeing them go in after the defeat and then getting auto-retreated anyway. I lost a lot of Comrades to the advancing Nazi hordes in that manner. The standard operating procedure became one of just not attempting to reinforce a battle underway. Unless it was absolutely critical, of course. Otherwise it was too much to try looking after, hour by the hour.
A good example of combat fatigue as a result of attempting to manage to many things which in turn leads to quite a lot of downstream suffering. Fortunately in this alternate reality the electrons don't really care.
 
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50shadesofgreen

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The actual reinforcement chance IS based on unit Org. It's actually the Org value divided by 100 and rounded down.

So unit with Org of 51.3 shows a base reinforcement chance of 0.50.

Every level of skill of the Corps Commander adds that value to itself. So a skill level of 1 doubles the chance. For a skill 2 you can multiply the base by 3, etc.

The minister shows a 10% on description, but acts like a skill 10 commander.

The doctrine although quoted as 5%, actually acts like a level 5 Corps Commander.

These modifiers can add together.

So by example, if that Org 51.3 unit was in combat under a skill 2 Corps commander, with both the 10 minister and 5 doctrine its reinforcement chance would be ( 1+2+10+5) = 18, then multiplied by the 0.513, making 9.20% taking the rounding down into account.
 
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Kovax

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So unless your low skill Corps Commander is actually in the pile, he's actually fairly pointless as far as his skill goes. I use combat units in HQs as an extra division but I need to re-think how this works with regards to defensive lines, when the guys are not always adjacent to the boss.
Not really. A level 1 commander in the same province will add his skill bonus at full value, but even if it's roughly halved because he's in a nearby province, something along the lines of an extra 0.20-0.25% is still a meaningful addition to whatever the base amount happens to be. Going from 0.40% to 0.60-0.65% is a reasonable improvement, although it's still rather weak. Obviously, a higher skilled commander would do better. Once you research the relevant doctrine or assign a minister to boost that value by a LOT, that commander's bonus really doesn't mean much.

I had no clue where the base chance came from, so that detailed description cleared up one more missing piece of the puzzle. Thanks.
 

50shadesofgreen

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I'm revising that interpretation having tested this myself. The Corps Commander delivers the same FULL bonus, whether in the same province or adjacent province. Beyond that distance there is no Corps bonus at all.