Uniting the empire, a tad too easy?

[kalle2000]

In my current game as Sweden, AI Austria did almost whats in the screenshot. Only problem is that they where not the emperor and did it by an insane amount of dows. 40 years into my game they owned almost all of Germany/Italy and had also whopped an almost fully formed France's ass.

 

[Gottskalk]

Yeah maybe we need to have it so that as part of the reformation process you are constantly fighting to keep the empire together, getting casus bellis on countries who decide to leave the empire because they want no part in these binding laws. So after every reform you will have your hands full reining in all the countries that decided to leave.

 

[cwg9]

Helius, please save us from this nightmare!

(That's a Magna Mundi reference for those who don't know, as in he's their HRE specialist and will fix this for the mod).

For those not into MM, then yes, I agree, this looks like it is way way way too easy in vanilla.

 

[Dafool]

I'm still curious if the AI will do it often or not. If the AI can do it consistently, then we know something is wrong. I haven't done a full HRE unification yet, but I did do the first 3 reforms within like 15 years in a quick Austria game. If it turns out to be that easy I'll be looking forward to a patch or a good mod to help out.

 

[Batavia]

I'm still curious if the AI will do it often or not. If the AI can do it consistently, then we know something is wrong. I haven't done a full HRE unification yet, but I did do the first 3 reforms within like 15 years in a quick Austria game. If it turns out to be that easy I'll be looking forward to a patch or a good mod to help out.

In the 2 games I played with HttT I see the AI form it twice around 1520 Once a one province Bohemia formed it and the other time a huge Austria. So it does seem that it is way to easy to form it.

It should not happen nearly every game in my opinion it should almost never happen. An especially not when you got a weak emperor (such as the one province Bohemia in my game)

 

[Lazuline]

Let us wait for Helius.

He will know how to fix this.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Dah, I hoped that uniting the HRE would be more "abstract", like the actual representation of the Emperor stretching his power upon the Imperial princes slow and hardly.

The whole system of Imperial authority looked well enough. But it seems it's too easy. I'll have to wait until I got HttT to judge.

Imperial authority raises naturally through time, or decreases like prestige? It should decrease.

And another thing: the AI should be almost totally unable to reunite the Empire. It's not meant to be united, the historical way before 1399 pointed to the total decentralization and the Emperor's loss of real power... which happened because it had to. The only way the HRE could have survived as a more or less coherent kigndom like France would be the success of the Hohenstaufen in the late XIIth Century against the Pope and the Welfs.

For the player, it would have to be hard, really hard, a pain in the ass. Especially once reached the Reformation. A HRE in 1500 created by the player could be possible with much effort, but the usual should be, given the proper raise of authority, the HRE united between 1580-1650, I think.

 

[sprites]

luckily it doesn't seem like the AI is quite as good as uniting. In my game as Brandenburg Austria was well on their way, but they had only enacted 4 reforms after 120 years, and in my game as Muscovy in 1510 Bavaria have enacted 5 reforms.

I guess the pace of reforming the empire will come to a halt with the reformation tho.

in my game , in 1484 , bohemia is emperor since the start but hand't enacted a single reform

 

[Morboth]

Indeed... it is WAY too easy...

The OP beat me by 5 years...

Oh, btw, did anyone notice this?

 

[unmerged(148296)]

Historically the HRE fell into the control of the Hapsburgs, although they did not hold it exclusively. The Hapsburgs also controlled Bohemia, Austria, the Netherlands, and Burgundy.

I don't know if it is in HTTT, but a major role the HRE did play in the reformation. The HRE played a large role in the Reformation, which was in many ways a conflict between the emperor and the princes of the empire, as it was between the Pope and Luther. After all the Diet of Worms was an Imperial Diet. Conversion to protestantism in the HRE, should be cb for the emperor.

 

[Tweetybird]

Well, here's a random idea to slow it down - the second from the end reform does not vassalise the entire empire, but enables you to spend 5/10 authority a pop to vassalise each via the diplomacy screen, or maybe via a magistrate. They can, of course, refuse, and it would be a war of your agression, to draw in all of their allies. Then, at any point, for the cost of some 50 IA, one could unite all of their vassals and themselves into the HRE, with 1 decentralization slider move per state vassalized and -1 stab, because I'm guessing that kind of a unification, even if one has been preparing it for years, would still leave quite a bit of chaos in the empire.

 

[panther-anthro]

I'm of the opinion that it should give at least max decentralization.

 

[scorecroaker]

I'm of the opinion that it should give at least max decentralization.

That would make sense, but it wouldn't make much of a difference, after all by 1450 few countries are lower than 0 at the centralization slider due to both restrictions because of government type and simple lack of time to move it.

Not to mention that people just wouldnt go centralized when aiming for HREmpire.

But together with making the reforms slower decentralization could be a nice thing, perhaps together with a nasty stab hit to make the first time as the HRE harder to manage(if that can be done to a country with like 300 forcelimits a shitload of manpower and the income of 60% of europe )

 

[The_Pursuader]

Yeah, when i formed it in the demo, i thought it was wayyy to easty too. It needs more requirements and the larger nations/more prestigious nations should not accept so easily...

+1
Uniting the HRE is SERIOUSLY overpowered
The fact that you don't annex but inherit it is just too much because you get instant cores on the entire empire and 0 infamy :wacko:
It has to be toned down to say the least..

I started my first HttT as Gelre. I was able to play 10 years sofar (gobbled up Utrecht and Friesland because they DOWed me one after another ). Tonight I'll have more time so I'll try to unify the HRE with Gelre focusing on diplomacy. I wonder how long it'll take untill I can unite the "empire of doom"

 

[SapientHomo]

In my Bohemia game I'm in 1514. I haven't formed it yet but I could have. I'm just waiting for the rest of Iberia to join before I enact the next reform to make them all my vassals.

I do find it strange that countries so willingly join their provinces to the HRE and that they apparently have so many spare magistrates to do so.