United States of America

[unmerged(2410)]

One of the things I thought was very cool about this game was the prospect of seing new, historical and unhistorical, nations pop up, out of the blue, as they rebelled and gained independence. Especially the fact, that USA could appear, without it being a consequence of a fixed or random historical event. If it appeared, it would be a result of pure game mechanics.

But I've never seen that happen. Has any of you?

In honesty, quite few independent nations ever seem to grow out prolonged rebellions. Most of the time it's only old, previously annexed, nations who turn up again.

I'm wondering if only certain provinces can become independent nations or if everyone has that potential ?

 

[Rex Francorum]

See the revolt.txt file (in the DB subdirectory)

It gives you the potential revolter, the time scale they can revolt and the provinces needed to create or recreate the country

So, for USA

USA = {
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1750 }
expirydate = { day = 31 month = december year = 1792 }
minimum = {54 61 62 68 85 86 87 88 99 101 102 103 }
extra = {48 55 56 63 64 65 66 69 70 84 100 104 }
capital = 86
group = latin
}

To be created, USA need 13 colonies! It explains why you never saw that.

 

[unmerged(2410)]

hmm ... seems like it would be pretty easy to edit theese things. It would be quite interesting to see more independent nations rise from the bitter ashes of rebellion

 

[Rex Francorum]

If you begin a game in 1492, the colonization of these 13 provinces will be probably do by many nations. For example, Manhattan could be english, Powhatan dutch, Massachussetts french. Consequently, the revolt in all 13 provinces appears impossible.

 

[saskganesh]

Originally posted by Rex Francorum
If you begin a game in 1492, the colonization of these 13 provinces will be probably do by many nations. For example, Manhattan could be english, Powhatan dutch, Massachussetts french. Consequently, the revolt in all 13 provinces appears impossible.

i've never seen it. but maybe worth modding by reducing the minimums to ... three?


thanx rex.

 

[Rex Francorum]

Reduce minimum to the core. Maybe 2 or 3 provinces. Possibly increase time scale too. Modifying too the area of Colonization to reduce the number of countries.

 

[saskganesh]

im in a game at 1770 now, and could do this mod now and see

what would you suggest as core provinces?

 

[unmerged(13984)]

The history of the United States' Revolution begins with what is called "The Battle of Lexington-Concord" (perhaps this could even be the name of the event that triggers the revolution). This battle occured in the colony (now state) of Massachusetts. Central to the movement for independence was the larger regional area "New England". I do not know what the exact names of the zones are, but I seem to recall that there are two colonis that would be indispensible - the one that is present-day Manhattan and the one that is present day Massachusetts. If they are adjacent, add another as the minimum-core. If they are separate then just add the zone that connects them, and there you go!

- If there is a way to then simulate the Anerican Civil War, that would be great! If the United States grows to include Savannah and one or two other areas, the risk of rebelion could be triggered by the 1860s-80s...

- also, I don't know if it is possible, but can other religions be added to the game such as Hindu, Confucionism and Jewish? If so, Hindu would make the pagan-Indian territories more interesting to play with and Confucionism would do the same for China. Judaism could lead to several revolts at different incriments in Judea (Judea would be the minimum and the core...

remarks please!

 

[Stonewall]

Dahveed, unfortunately new religions can't be added to EU1. EU2 has new religions such as Hindu, Budhist, Confucianism, etc... If you want to do a temporary fix to the pagan rest of the world, my suggestion would to alternate sunni and shiite for Hindu and Buddhist. Its an ugly and ahistorical fix, but it definitely makes for a more interesting game once you get to India and the Far East.

 

[unmerged(11600)]

The board game has an interesting way of handling the American Revolution (a random political event there). They have a hierarchy of regions in which it can take place, so long as England has a minimum of three colonies of level 4-6 there. 1) North America, 2) Caribbean/South America, 3) India, 4) Africa, 5) Middle East, and 6) Far East. Some of these areas overlap in the provinces included. England can guarentee that the event won't occur only by being weak everywhere. If it can occur, roll a d10 to see if it does occur, modified by various things. If it does occur, every English colony and trade post in the region is in revolt, except just one of England's choice. If England hasn't pacified all rebelions within 2 turns (10 years), all colonies in the regions (special exemption) plus one trade post become the United States. If any other player has colonies in the region, there is a chance that they too will rebel the following turn.

Of course, the rules and the event description contradict each other on some of the die roll modifiers, but that's par for the course for the game.

-Pat

 

[Rex Francorum]

The US core provinces could be Massachussetts (Boston) 103, Connecticut (Hartford) 102, Manhattan (NYC) 87 and Delaware (Philly) 86. How about changing the period?

So,

USA = {
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1750 }
expirydate = { day = 31 month = december year = 1792 }
minimum = {86 87 102 103 }
extra = {48 54 55 56 61 62 63 64 65 66 68 69 70 84 85 88 89 100 101 104 }
capital = 86
group = latin
}

Be sure to erase "America" in AI files for France and Holland if you wish true Red English colonies. It won't assure systematically the colonization by England but will help.

 

[unmerged(2410)]

The US core provinces could be Massachussetts (Boston) 103, Connecticut (Hartford) 102, Manhattan (NYC) 87 and Delaware (Philly) 86. How about changing the period?

EU is such a great game (for us history buffs, anyway) because it reprensents a picture of how history might have turned out, if circumstances were different.

Because of this I actually think all provinces should be able to rebel and become independent at any time if a rebellion was allowed to go on long enough.

This is of course not possible, but in my oppinion 2 rebelling provinces should be enough, in the case of the US, I propose a Massachussetts 103/Manhattan 87 constellation.

There shouldn't be any limits as to period.

One thing however, I'm unsure of. Is the formation of an independent US an automatic occurrence (like when the Dutch rebel against Spain in the Netherlands), which only happens if the British own all 13 provinces, or do the provinces actually have to rebel by themselves (as a natural consequence of mismanagement and/or war)?

 

[Rex Francorum]

About the number of provinces and period, it is all matter to debate and personal choice because it goes in the field of alternative history.

One thing however, I'm unsure of. Is the formation of an independent US an automatic occurrence (like when the Dutch rebel against Spain in the Netherlands), which only happens if the British own all 13 provinces, or do the provinces actually have to rebel by themselves (as a natural consequence of mismanagement and/or war)?

It's not hardcoded like Holland event. It will only occur if instability occurs.

To be sure, I will work on it.

 

[Error_page_07]

Originally posted by mjuul
...But I've never seen that happen. Has any of you?...

I saw the declaring independence of Holland, but when I played again, Zeland war conquered by Hannover , so there was revolts for about 100 years, then Spain lowered the revolt risk by changing the religion settings. Holland wasn't be created. Now, these four provinces are in ownership by Spain, England and Hannover. - Crazy history, isn't it???

 

[unmerged(13984)]

A few words re: alternate history...

1) I suggest to anyone who is interested in alternative history and has a specific fetish for the American Civil War and/or World War II, then I highly recommend looking into the books by Harry Turtledove. An extroaordinary set of book-series which cover the "what if" of a southern victory in the Amer. Civil War and the course of world history that would follow into the 20th century, a series about an alien invasion during WWII and the reluctant cooperation of the humans to repel this forieng foe, and a other books related to the big "what if"

2) The four provinces proposed (Mass., Conn., Man. & Del.) are the perfect ones. Originally the other colonies are against outright revolution and instead favored powerful collective negotiations with the crown.

peace

 

[Rex Francorum]

Things said, things done.

I started a game (1700 scenario) as Portugal with the main 4 colonies ( Massachussetts (Boston) 103, Connecticut (Hartford) 102, Manhattan (NYC) 87 and Delaware (Philly) 86). Only these 2 last provinces were needed to constitute USA in my test. In provinces.csv I changed religion of these provinces to protestant. I intentionnally decrease stability to -3 and moved religion sliders to increase revolt %. The colonies revolted in 1700. As you see on the screenshots, the independance appeared in 1707 after announcement of a civil war. With all of these extraordinary conditions, I doubt the creation of USA will be usual even with modification to revolt.txt. (N.B.:Between 1700 and 1707, I built trade posts in Catskill, Susquehanna and Powhatan who were taken by revolters).

 

[saskganesh]

thanks rex for sussing this out. based on what you tell us here, it seems very unlikely that a US revolt will happen to a wise & experienced player. the possibilty may happen more to an AI nation.

even w/o a hardcoded revolt as with the Dutch, this is a good thing to have in place. gad dang it, the flag with 13 stars and 13 stripes are on the game box after all!

 

[Nikolai II]

IGC did increase the possibility for USA by reducing the required areas, but basically you'd have to go to EU2 to increase the likelihood, since you only need a single rebel province there to get independent.

 

[unmerged(16031)]

new nations

I am currently playing a world conquest game as France(yes, it is easy).

I had the Lowland's(except for Friesen where I sent a colonist to change the religion, which ended the rebellions there) in full rebellion for something like 40-50 years. I mean they were under rebel control for the whole time.

But still no Netherlands was born.

Wonder why?

 

[Morpheus506]

Was the dutch capitol under rebel control?