And that's not confusing? Who knows how many republican revolters are there.Rocketman said:
"United States" instead of USA
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THE American Republic. All those other republics are just imitators.
I fail to see how anyone who cannot figure out that the phrase "United States" (in ANY language) and a nice big Stars & Stripes graphic accompanying the name in the message box refers to exactly one (1) nation on Earth...is assumed by the devs to be interested in or even capable of buying and playing such a game...pretty sure that the few remote tribes of primitives who wouldn't recognize an American flag (and thus make the apparently difficult leap in reasoning as to which "United States" is meant)
also lack written forms of language supported by the game, electricity to run a computer, the computer itself, or for that matter a legally acceptable form of currency with which to purchase Paradox products in the first place...
Just seems lazy or passive/aggressive IMHO, personally I'd prefer "United States of America", since the game is dealing with issues at a governmental level and that is our formal title, and isn't very long in any case. Still, "United States" works if it comes down to it, it is our "working title", but other than that, it is insulting & inaccurate to be referred to by an acronym throughout the game.
*Misses a step dismounting soapbox, lands face first in mud*
-Wicked
also lack written forms of language supported by the game, electricity to run a computer, the computer itself, or for that matter a legally acceptable form of currency with which to purchase Paradox products in the first place...
Just seems lazy or passive/aggressive IMHO, personally I'd prefer "United States of America", since the game is dealing with issues at a governmental level and that is our formal title, and isn't very long in any case. Still, "United States" works if it comes down to it, it is our "working title", but other than that, it is insulting & inaccurate to be referred to by an acronym throughout the game.
*Misses a step dismounting soapbox, lands face first in mud*
-Wicked
insulting? pasive/agressive? wethinks you're reading too much in this. I personally do not see how united states could be misconstruied either, but to read insult into the use of an acronym? That's more then a bit paranoid. Do hear any Dutch complaining here that Netherlands is incorrect for the time, that it is insulting and degrading to our noble history to call it that instead of Vereenigde Nederlanden? Of course not.Wicked1066 said:
EDIT: BtW, in Dutch the US is often referred to by it's acronym VS in every day speech.
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Rocketman said:
As was stated before, who is to say that it was Americo Vespucia who discovered the continent in the game?
The Columbian Republic? The Cabotian Republic?
Hehe. I suppose United States is fine.
Belissarius said:
Not impossible, but in my opinion, and in the opinions of several other Europeans, unlikely. Further, my opinion has evidence to back it up. All your opinion has is someone else's opinion. I'm not accusing Johan of lying, far from it, but I think he may be overestimating the possibility for confusion.
When virtually every European language refers to the country as the "United States", this is unlikely. I would be able to make this distinction were I a speaker of seventeen of the twenty languages that are official in the EU. Further, anyone who can play EUIII in English will almost certainly have sufficient working knowledge of the language to be able to recognise the English name of the world's most powerful nation. Further still, anyone who lives outside of the Amazon Rainforest will be able to recognise the country with the American flag beside it as being the United States. It could be written in Martian without causing much difficulty.
I fail to see why they would get confused, when the majority of the EU languages have the same distinction between "state" and "province" that we do. Look up "States" in a French dictionary and you'll find "États". Look up "Provinces" and you'll find "Provinces".
États? Staaten? Estados? Stati?
Provinces? Provinzen? Provincias? Province?
Considering that the words for "state" and "province" are so similar to the english words in almost all EU languages, I very much doubt there is possibility for confusion as to the meaning. It's on about the same level as an English speaker getting confused by the Italian name for Italy.
Italia...what does that mean in my language?
Wicked1066 said:
So let me get this straight Its Passive/aggressive or lazy as well as insulting & inaccurate to use an acronym of USA? Even when your own bloody people in your own nation uses USA written all over the place? You have a NATIONAL daily Newspaper called USA today. HOW the bloody hell is it INSULTING & INNACCURATE to use USA? Is there some "boy" club in the United States that allows for "Americans" to use USA but everyone else is not allowed?
The level of HUBRIS here is whats insulting & innaccurate. Its not like USA isnt an accepted written form for UNited States of America. I said before you dont get more mainstream than a national daily newspaper. Are you trying to tell me that USA Today chose a name that is Insultion & innaccurate?
Reveilled said:
Did I not make that disclaimer about my opinion? I also no from personal bloody experience just how easy it is to get confussed when reading french and translating it back into engish in my head. Part of it is because I'm not fluent in french part is because its the very bloody easy way to get confussed. Its actually a common thing to happen while reading. In spoken language you get tonal and facial expression clues to help in understanding.
As for this whole arguement I find that some Americans are getting far too sensitve and bullish about this. Regarless of all other factors USA is a 100% accepted form of refering to the UNited States of America, it is both common and mainstream.
Johan said there could be confussion you say its not, Johan is a designer, Paradox is using a completely accepted form of refering to the United States, so get over it.
Ironicly I'd be on your side if USA wasnt an accepted form but it is.
Belissarius said:
I can also speak from experience, having to translate texts from old Germanic languages as part of my degree. However, usually, it is pretty simple to work out what a word means when the equivalent word in English is almost exactly the same. As it is for the question of "State" and "Province" in modern European languages (Which I note, being the section of my argument where I backed up my assertions, you have completely ignored).
I could understand the possibility for confusion if virtually every European language didn't use a term so similar to the English, "United States". In fact, since the abbreviation of "United States of America" in most languages is almost never going to result in USA (EUA is probably the most common), one would think that USA creates more potential for confusion.
I'm not sure if this is directed at me, but I am, in fact, Scottish.
This is an Appeal to Authority. Also, I like the little "get over it" touch. Nicely done. Other people back up their arguments with examples, but you're content to ignore the evidence, and advance hypotheses based on nothing more than one person's assertion, then cap it all off with flippant disregard for anyone else's position. Bravo.
"USA" could cause confusion as well. What if it's referring to the Union of South Africa?
Judas Maccabeus said:"USA" could cause confusion as well. What if it's referring to the Union of South Africa?
Curse the Union and its generic name!
Unless the colonization AI is much improved I don't think one need worry about that.Judas Maccabeus said:"USA" could cause confusion as well. What if it's referring to the Union of South Africa?
Oh man. Three pages dedicated to THIS topic? I think people are going wild while waiting for another update from paradox.
Belissarius said:
Dude...CHILL OUT...just in case you didn't notice the level of sarcasm in my post...I'll state it plainly, I-was-being-sarcastically-bombastic...to an extent...
That being said, I maintain my stated position regarding a name change, this is a game played from the POV of the government, and official documents use something a wee bit more formal than a sports chant or newspaper brand to refer to political entities.
I like a bit more accuracy than you do in this area apparently, we are the United States of America or United States in ANY official documents...treaties...trade agreements...declarations of war...diplomatic missions...internal affairs...you name it, it has been like this for the past 230 years...popular nicknames are not used in the kind of matters that you will be dealing with in-game.
This has nothing to do with unofficial use, in-game you will, by definition, be acting in an official capacity throughout, political titles should reflect this, and, if you want to get technical about it, during the entire (short) period of our history that the game covers the popular title would have been either the Republic or Columbia, not USA or even US...
And, as both I and others have pointed out, there is the flag, pretty hard to screw up ID when it is probably the most well known flag on the planet, and it is certainly the only one like it which has the same form of name.
And of course English...as Reveilled pointed out, anyone who is fluent enough to play the game in that language will know which nation is being referred to by default, and honestly, pretty much any player no matter their language is going to know, even without the flag.
Belissarius said:
See above...
-Wicked
Reveilled said:
No this was not directed at you which is why I never used "your nation" or the like in any responce to your posts. And which is why I started a new paragraph with a transitional sentence.
Your evidence was selective at best. For provinces you selected romantic languages that are all similar to show that "see why would anyone have a problem the all look the same" well the word provinces in english is yet another french import into the english language if I recall my studies correctly. So it would look like the romanic language words now wouldnt it. i simply didnt respond because I felt you knew that it was a deliberatly skewed bit of evidence not complete as your other list of languages and words for United States, as it likely wouldnt have been as confivincing if a whole lot of languagues didnt have similar looking words.
I also find that you seem to have no sympathy for people who use english as a second,third or fourth language. I can read some french but I still get confussed but what native french speakers would think is obvious and the least likey to be confussing. Things get screwed up when you read in one language and think in another it painfully easy to make mistakes and get confussed. I also dont know all the French names for all the nations of the world though the entire time period of the game nor the German names for nations which I know a few and I know non of the names for nations in other languages. So I am able to put myself in someone elses shoes and see that perhaps there could be a confussion especially since Johan said there was. Again I ask WHY would he care about the name unless it did cause confussion? Perhaps he has members of paradox's staff that had the problem? I think you are dismissing the issue simple because you dont see any possablity of confusion because you yourself are not confussed.
Also perhaps they are issues mentioned like colonies can become states like in victoria and united states becomes a more confusing statement in that context. It is very easy to dismiss another's concern when you dont share the same problem. I also dont see a problem with useing a common and perfectly acceptable form of refering to a nation if it eliminated the possiblity of confussion for a portion of the players who dont have a total command of english that i or other primary speakers do. Its not like he's doing anything that is insulting or innaccurate. We are talking stricly subjective opinion on what people like better. I personally feel that a person's desire for a name to be one way is trumped by anothers concern for confusion.
Belissarius said:
I find that you think people who speak English as a second, third, fourth language are so incredibly stupid that when they see this:
UNITED STATES
they'll say/think "Huh. I wonder which country that is. Must be that Dutch country."
Well, personally, I think 'United States of America' or 'United States' both looks and sounds better in-game than 'USA'.
That's personal choice right there.
And also: in non-english versions, use 'USA' as not to confuse people. But in the US version (not USA version ^_^) you should just go with 'United States' or 'United States of America'.
No confusion if you can reada the english.
That's personal choice right there.
And also: in non-english versions, use 'USA' as not to confuse people. But in the US version (not USA version ^_^) you should just go with 'United States' or 'United States of America'.
No confusion if you can reada the english.
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