Unit notification suggestion - "priority" units/fleets/armies/air wings

[Axe99]

Been thinking more about unit notifications in a HoI4 sense, and this popped into my head, so thought I'd share in case useful.

Unit notifications are a two-edged sword. It's handy to know when units arrive somewhere, or are attacked, particularly when you're dealing with multiple fronts that you can't view at once on one screen. However, it also means you can get a lot of pop-ups when you're doing Barbarossa, say.

One way around this could be to employ a system similar to that in CK2 and EU4, which assigns priorities, but instead of assigning priorities to people (CK2) or nations (EU4), it could be to fleets/air wings/units/armies.

So, for example, a German player can assign his defensive forces in France for notifications of attacks (so he knows when he's getting invaded), but leaves them off for Barbarossa because they're watching that directly. Similarly, a US player can have set their units in the Pacific for notifications, and focus on Europe (leaving notifications priority low on their European units, so no pop-ups from there), and still know when Japan is invading somewhere, or his invasion of northern PNG commences.

Plus, by setting notification preferences for 2 or 3 different priorities, then toggling those priorities at the unit/fleet/air wing/army level, it's quick and easy to go from no notifications to full notifications for a theatre when the strategic situations changes. Allies invade Italy in '43? Throw notification priority to high on the Eastern Front, take them off Italy, and push those pesky allies back into the sea. Job done, flick the forces defending Italy onto high priority, go back to the Eastern Front and try keep on fighting the Soviets.

Thoughts?

 

[Mannstien]

I thought that's what the notification was that showed up on the left side of the theatre you create if they are being invaded or it's an amphibious invasion, could have sworn in one of the MP streams Daniel said that.

 

[Axe99]

I thought that's what the notification was that showed up on the left side of the theatre you create if they are being invaded or it's an amphibious invasion, could have sworn in one of the MP streams Daniel said that.

Could have been, I haven't watched all the streams as I struggle to keep up with the faster-paced ones (so even when I watched them, missed a heap), so really only watched the earlier MP ones and the slower-paced ones in China. Deffo interested in what's in there, and how it all works, and even better if they've already got differing priorities for notification by theatre .

 

[potski]

Unit notifications are a two-edged sword. It's handy to know when units arrive somewhere, or are attacked, particularly when you're dealing with multiple fronts that you can't view at once on one screen.

There have never been any unit notifications in 20 hours of WWW. The only notifications that pop-up on the screen are when research or NFs are completed. These and other things like convoy sinkings also appear as alerts along the top of the screen.

 

[Axe99]

There have never been any unit notifications in 20 hours of WWW. The only notifications that pop-up on the screen are when research or NFs are completed. These and other things like convoy sinkings also appear as alerts along the top of the screen.

If this is the case, there's a chance we'll possibly not be alerted when enemies launch an offensive, or if one of our invasions has commenced, or the like. That'd be a huge step backwards in terms of useability for the game. I'd be very surprised if they didn't have some kind of notifications for these kind of things somewhere. If they don't, there'll be plenty of activity on the forums about it not long after launch .

 

[potski]

You would know if one of your invasions has commenced - you execute the plan. You would know you are at war, and there is a good chance you will be attacked on a particular front. But watch the third Hungary WWW when Daniel is invaded by sea and from Greece, in his "rear" while he is invading Germany.

 

[Råttan]

Just because there is a notification-system dosnt mean its active in Daniels game. As I remember it, you can change the notification in all PI games, and those settigns moves on to the next session automaticly, so maybe he just disabled them before?

 

[Bridger15]

This is a pretty good idea, and could be designed to work at the theater level.

 

[Axe99]

You would know if one of your invasions has commenced - you execute the plan. You would know you are at war, and there is a good chance you will be attacked on a particular front. But watch the third Hungary WWW when Daniel is invaded by sea and from Greece, in his "rear" while he is invading Germany.

The WWW's got a bit quick for me - it was just "this attack here, that attack there". I think it was great they're being done, but I wasn't really getting much from them (I'm more of a player than a watcher by preference, and very, very rarely watch video-game related streams at all - the WWWs I have seen would comprise the majority of all streaming gameplay I've ever watched, and that's watching maybe half to two-thirds of them). However, in the WWWs I did see Daniel getting encircled by Johan on multiple occasions because he didn't have notifications, as well as Japan invaded and mostly occupied before anyone had noticed, so I'm not entirely sure the WWWs are a good argument that the game without notifications is a step forward .

As for invasions, it could take up to a week or two from pressing the 'go' button on an invasion for it to occurring (and usually at least a few days, unless you're dropping across the English Channel). A week for me in HoI time is 30-60 minutes, which is all well and good if the only thing I'm doing is that invasion, but that's a fairly unusual situation for a major in HoI (obviously, for most minors, most of the time, no notifications aren't an issue, as the war zone will be so small it will be easy to have in one screen) - which means I'm either constantly scrolling the map backwards and forwards to see where they're at, or I might arrive a day or two late to the party, to see them wiped out because I wasn't there to tell them to re-embark.

Take the UK - at war in the middle of 1942, the historical situation. You have to keep an eye on North Africa, the North Sea, Burma and the Pacific Islands, and are launching an invasion of Madagascar from ports in South Africa. Without notifications, it either becomes an exercise in bad UI shaping gameplay (ie, withdrawal from theatres until you can fit it into a sensible sized scan of the map), or of lots of scrolling around the map to check what's going on. Of course, it's possible to play without notifications, but it's a step backwards in useability and you haven't yet made anything near a convincing case to say otherwise. Same story for the US, and things get pretty complicated for Germany or the USSR if it becomes a two-front conflict.

I'm not saying it's not feasible, and it's still fairly straightforward for a nation like France, Germany or the USSR, which for most of the game have one big front, but for the USA or UK, or even Canada, whose forces were quite spread out, no notifications means a whole lot of micro-management of the camera (or playing badly, or in a forced-limited fashion due to UI constraints). How is this a step forward, or even parity, with HoIs past?

Edit: Just talking this out - sorry if I sound short, not meant in that way .

 

[TheRomanRuler]

In theory this sounds great, but in practice this could be confusing for new players, but also for me. Interface would have to be made really good.

 

[Merrivale]

I like the concept, but it might have to wait a bit, since it will require more dev work than the basic message settings they've had in past games. And I do honestly think that it's a lower priority at release time (as long as the message settings are in the game in the first place).

There is an alert for an invasion, right where Mannstein said. However, as I understand it, the alert is designed to tell you when you have a new invasion occurring on a front. We've seen it pop-up for naval invasions and I believe land ones as well, but I'm not positive about that. Which should help you avoid missing the fact that someone just attacked you in a place you weren't expecting (unless you have three of them already and didn't notice the fourth one pop up), but won't help with managing a multi-front war if you prefer to do so using unit movement and attack/defend notifications.

I really do hope that they aren't just going to stack all the places you're being attacked underneath the invasion alert icon. That sort of thing doesn't work when you either have more than a couple of the instance at the same time or you're in a state where the alert is constantly being met so it never goes away and you have to keep checking it to see what has changed. Based on the Stellaris design, I fear that's where we are headed. Imagine all of the Eastern Front tucked under one alert to scroll or tab through.

 

[Axe99]

In theory this sounds great, but in practice this could be confusing for new players, but also for me. Interface would have to be made really good.

How do you find the message priorities in CK2 and EU4? Do they work for you, or there are other things you'd do differently? Genuine question, as answers could help provide useful guidance if devs like idea (and if they don't, it'll die so no worries ).

I like the concept, but it might have to wait a bit, since it will require more dev work than the basic message settings they've had in past games. And I do honestly think that it's a lower priority at release time (as long as the message settings are in the game in the first place).

There is an alert for an invasion, right where Mannstein said. However, as I understand it, the alert is designed to tell you when you have a new invasion occurring on a front. We've seen it pop-up for naval invasions and I believe land ones as well, but I'm not positive about that. Which should help you avoid missing the fact that someone just attacked you in a place you weren't expecting (unless you have three of them already and didn't notice the fourth one pop up), but won't help with managing a multi-front war if you prefer to do so using unit movement and attack/defend notifications.

I really do hope that they aren't just going to stack all the places you're being attacked underneath the invasion alert icon. That sort of thing doesn't work when you either have more than a couple of the instance at the same time or you're in a state where the alert is constantly being met so it never goes away and you have to keep checking it to see what has changed. Based on the Stellaris design, I fear that's where we are headed. Imagine all of the Eastern Front tucked under one alert to scroll or tab through.

Haha, not suggesting it for launch, less than a month out new features should be the last thing they're thinking of! Totally agree with your concerns about notifications in general, but that's better discussed in your thread . Was just trying to think of a way of making notifications a bit more manageable - as you say, once things get going, one notification to cycle through for every combat in action (or lots of identical alerts popping up for combats, a la Stellaris but on a much greater scale) is going to be a bit painful to click through, and a step backwards in useability.

 

[potski]

Of course, it's possible to play without notifications, but it's a step backwards in useability and you haven't yet made anything near a convincing case to say otherwise.

You and Merrivale seem to have the wrong idea. I'm not trying to make a case for not having unit notifications. I'm telling you what is in the videos - no unit notifications. Yes, I don't like unnecessary pop-ups that interfere with the flow of the game, but that's a personal preference.

This is like thinking that Yeti might exist:

Just because there is a notification-system dosnt mean its active in Daniels game. As I remember it, you can change the notification in all PI games, and those settigns moves on to the next session automaticly, so maybe he just disabled them before?

20 hours of videos with four (or was it five?) different players, and you think you would have at least caught a glimpse of one by now

 

[JerkyJerry]

Just because there is a notification-system dosnt mean its active in Daniels game. As I remember it, you can change the notification in all PI games, and those settigns moves on to the next session automaticly, so maybe he just disabled them before?

Yeah I'm going to go with this
I know the good folks at Paradox just have to know not only how important notifications are to us but they are also trying to get new players. I agree with Rattan that guys like these who have played this game for a few hundred hours by now just have the notification system turned off.

 

[Axe99]

You and Merrivale seem to have the wrong idea. I'm not trying to make a case for not having unit notifications. I'm telling you what is in the videos - no unit notifications. Yes, I don't like unnecessary pop-ups that interfere with the flow of the game, but that's a personal preference.

This is like thinking that Yeti might exist:

20 hours of videos with four (or was it five?) different players, and you think you would have at least caught a glimpse of one by now

Aye, sorry, it felt from some of your posts that you were arguing they weren't helpful. That said, this thread is about a suggestion for the future, not talking about a feature that's already in the game (the other thread is very much about the pros and cons of notifications). Even if notifications aren't in the game (which, as we both agree, may well be the case at this stage, useability be damned) it's not inappropriate to make suggestions about notifications for the future (at least, as far as I'm aware - if I've got this wrong, by all means set me straight ).

 

[TheRomanRuler]

How do you find the message priorities in CK2 and EU4? Do they work for you, or there are other things you'd do differently? Genuine question, as answers could help provide useful guidance if devs like idea (and if they don't, it'll die so no worries ).

I have played over 180 hours of EU4 and over 280 hours of CK2 (even though i actually like EU4 more), and i still can not say. I think it is a hard thing to notice.