Unique governments other than the Hive Mind

[Xoatl]

Anarchy has this tiny issue where if someone can convince a group of people to work with him, he will likely stand a decent chance of taking over said society. Or the group he tries to take over has to form their own group of strongmen to stop them.

At which point you have the issue of having a group of strongmen in your society. And they might not decide to disband. So you are back to square 1. And well, these strongmen need to kept appeased, so better give them some of the pie. And well, those groups overthere are defenseless against our tested and proven force. Why not take them over for the resources they have.

One way or another, you are stuck with the issue that the moment a strong enough group breaks from an anarchy, the system will fail. Organized governments will form. Either because someone decides they want to be on top, or because people are trying to resist those who wanted to be on top.

At best, it turns into a normal democracy. At worst? You are stuck with fuedalism, with everyone as serfs.

Direct Democracy is not a materialist government for no reason. It is needed because the technology needed for it to actually work is very advanced tech. Subconscious Consciousness is basically the closest you can actully come to making anarchy work. And even, that is only because literally everyone is connected into a nation-wide communication netowrk with cybernetic implants. Also, They still have a government and bureaucracy because you can't avoid the fact they are outright needed for planet-wide government.

Yep I said that.

Makes total sense, whereas civilizations are always on the brink of collapse, anarchy is always on the brink of order. All it takes is some powerful corporation, or warlord, cartel boss, or general to centralize a bit of power and it's no longer anarchy.

Factions would be the big sticking point to an anarchy government. More so than other governments. If you go back to the decentralization/centralization scale of the authorities and you look at the new teaser highlighting that hiveminds have no factions at all then it makes sense that the authority at the other end of the extreme (anarchy) would be most at risk from factions.

 

[Hyomoto]

I just hope HMs have loads of goofy starting event chains. I don't want to have to random search for space probes or space temples.

For game purposes, would a hive mind human using the same portrait and name as humans still be considered human? Or are species sorted by traits, too?

I'm pretty sure portrait doesn't factor in at all. Even genetically modifying your own species creates a new one.

 

[Kat Tsun]

I'm pretty sure portrait doesn't factor in at all. Even genetically modifying your own species creates a new one.

It's listed differently on the Species screen. IIRC one of the developers (Wiz?) said the game considered anything with the same name and portrait as the same species, although there was also no mention of traits.

It might be different now that traits will apparently factor into gameplay besides bonuses.

 

[Foefaller]

Being able to play as a nomadic fleet seems like the next unique government to go with.

Another idea is a symbiotic species. You're species isn't the pops themselves, but the sentient slug/fungus/etc growing in them, that can be spread to other pops. Would probably be a great splat for an espionage-related DLC, as something you can pick to give some bonuses to infiltration and whatnot.

 

[The Founder]

Factions would be the big sticking point to an anarchy government. More so than other governments. If you go back to the decentralization/centralization scale of the authorities and you look at the new teaser highlighting that hiveminds have no factions at all then it makes sense that the authority at the other end of the extreme (anarchy) would be most at risk from factions.

Factions are exactly the kind of order the Ideal Anarchist Government would have to avoid. Factions are the root of why Anarchistic Government can not work in reality.

And a again, just head-canoning your Hivemind would totally deal with that.

 

[Xoatl]

Factions are exactly the kind of order the Ideal Anarchist Government would have to avoid. Factions are the root of why Anarchistic Government can not work in reality.

And a again, just head-canoning your Hivemind would totally deal with that.

Hivemind has its own pros/cons and unque experience. With anarchy you'd be worrying about factions even more but the pros should exlude some micromanagement (like hivemind excludes factions and happiness but lets POPs generate resources without penalty). With anarchy, you can't colonize, but private organizations can and they do so faster (and you have more core planets). Through this you can model a proper ancap society.

 

[Maverikfreak]

What is more difficult to build, a dyson sphere or a anarchy society in a huge universe with hundred and exotic species inside? Mmm

Some people seem to consider it a "Utopia", would fit well with the DLC, right?

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

What is more difficult to build, a dyson sphere or a anarchy society in a huge universe with hundred and exotic species inside? Mmm

Some people seem to consider it a "Utopia", would fit well with the DLC, right?

I don't think anarchy scales very well. At some point, you need to give it up for organization and a "state", even if that state then leaves the majority of its populace entirely alone and "does its own thing" to find more spaces for its population to live.

 

[The Founder]

What is more difficult to build, a dyson sphere or a anarchy society in a huge universe with hundred and exotic species inside? Mmm

Some people seem to consider it a "Utopia", would fit well with the DLC, right?

A dyson sphere for energy collection is possible within the known rules of the universe. Indeed we reallife humans could start building a dyson swarm for energy collection right now.

A Anarchic Soceity that will not fall prey to order being born from lack of order? Not so much. Especially not on the scales and timeframes needed for Stellaris.

 

[Diezy]

Some non-territorial political entities, like nomads, corporations, pirates and mercenaries, that would primarily not rely on having a far-flung empire, but who could do lots of other things in other empires' borders, that would be beneficial to both.

Perhaps also a playable precursor, similar to the Fallen Empire's Stagnant Ascendancy, which would be Stagnant Ascendancy+Fanatic Ethic. A weakened Fallen Empire that you try wrest out of its current state, that's not as strong as the Fallen Empires in the game currently. You have a few Fallen Empire tech ships that you'd have to be frugal with, and you can't expand until you trigger the Awakening in several different ways! Often with the help of the younger empires, and some "old favor" events there might be, with other precursors. Among the features of such a thing there would be lots of enemies wanting your space clay with the unique goodies it has, as well as lots of infighting and possibly some decline though loss of some techs and Ascension Perks as the game progresses, until you Awaken.

Some kind of Space Byzantium.

 

[stag_1]

In the future (probably far future because just the implementation of supporting mechanics would require a DLC of its owm) I'd love to see some form of nomadic civilisation. Like ME Quarians and their Migrant Fleet.

The way i imagine it, their population would live on enormous ships functioning as mobile habitats. They would have only rudimentary production capabilities of their own but the fleet could occupy planets and systems they visit to aggressively harvest resources and add them to their stockpile before moving on. They would also have unique tech options to improve their navy, offset maintenance, make harvesting more efficient and such.
They would be able to do all those things inside the borders of other empires, but obviously that would carry diplomatic consequences so the nomads would have to strike a balance between stealing from sedentary empires and trading with them as a way of securing a more sustainable income.
If at any point the nomadic fleet decided to settle down, they could colonise a planet with one of their liveships. The rest of them would then immediately convert into stationary habitats, they'd lose access to harvesting and for all intents and purposes would become a regular empire.

I thought about it way too much XD

Reading this gave me some more thoughts on your idea, for example since the species would constantly be moving around they likely would not be able to make their own ships so I would see in most cases that they would have to form good diplomatic relations with other empires so that they would be able to buy some of friendly species ships or use their spaceport to build their own. If they do buy some of the other species ships then after that they could use the space port to upgrade the ships to the players ship designs. Not sure if you mentioned this but with they fleet for your empire to be able to expand you would need to buy or make habitat ships which is what your pops would live on. Also another idea I had was that it would make more sense to make the nomad empires ships more powerful or greatly increase the fleet capacity to make up for the fact that one lost battle could be the end of the species.

Edit: I see that you did mention living on ships, what I mean would that they would have dedicated ships that house the pops sort of like what you said which would basically be just moving space habitats. When 1.5 hits I could see that someone makes a mod that basically uses the colony ships as the "habitat" ships for the species to live on.

 

[Xoatl]

I don't think anarchy scales very well. At some point, you need to give it up for organization and a "state", even if that state then leaves the majority of its populace entirely alone and "does its own thing" to find more spaces for its population to live.

Well I don't think hivemind scales very well. How can you realistically maintain useful communication between organisms billions of miles apart? In my mind an anarchy would have as much of a decentralized state as possible mixed with a complete lack of faith in it by the population. So people would choose to associate more with their local corporation, holy order, gang, academy, etc.

The actual state in this circumstance would be spending all its time trying to plug leaks, preventing monopolies, focusing on big crimes and events. So a fan spiritual anarchy would include the head priests recruited from volunteers from the public. It's likely the religion would be polytheistic and everyone can worship their own gods with their own stories. Only time the state would intervene is if any given sect tries to supercede the state/religion. Like when Yahweh the war god (and his followers) orchestrated a coup and turned Judaism from polytheism to the monotheism we know now. Beyond that, what the laws are, legality, policing, taxes, purging or not, etc, would be up to the local sect.

 

[Lothmar]

Don’t know if anyones brought it up yet, but I think 'Fragmented Nations' would be interesting to play as. Basically choose a main government mediary that represents the interests of the nations in the alliance/confederacy/etc, then all pops have randomized Ethics and you get 'nation factions' on your planets. Then when you colonize it's a careful balancing act of what nations are allowed to get expansion foot holds over the others etc, maybe carefully balancing where you deploy nations colonies so they can eventually become state sectors of your confederacy.

Third party empires deal with the 'representative government' and propose issues etc to the member states but depending on the relationship your nations have with each other, they may have to have unanimous agreement for your group to take on outside issue, or A B C nations might accept a proposal but nation D and its sector might not and suddenly you have 3/4 of your empire with a non aggression pact but a sector that can be attacked or attack out of but both cause diplomatic issues with the main group.

Basically a play-style built around eventually granting independence to the various groups and becoming a one species federation or lots of 'vassal empires' of your people with differing ideologies but all following a single banner etc.

----

*edit - Heck maybe have the homeworld as 'capital' of all of these nations to start but if one group wants to change their nations capital to a sector or another world then you get a boost of influence like as if you had paid the game to change capitals.

 

[tangled axile]

Hivemind has its own pros/cons and unque experience. With anarchy you'd be worrying about factions even more but the pros should exlude some micromanagement (like hivemind excludes factions and happiness but lets POPs generate resources without penalty). With anarchy, you can't colonize, but private organizations can and they do so faster (and you have more core planets). Through this you can model a proper ancap society.

You can already play as corporate feudalists - I mean, 'ancaps.' Plutocratic Oligarchy has been in since launch.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Reading this gave me some more thoughts on your idea, for example since the species would constantly be moving around they likely would not be able to make their own ships so I would see in most cases that they would have to form good diplomatic relations with other empires so that they would be able to buy some of friendly species ships or use their spaceport to build their own. If they do buy some of the other species ships then after that they could use the space port to upgrade the ships to the players ship designs. Not sure if you mentioned this but with they fleet for your empire to be able to expand you would need to buy or make habitat ships which is what your pops would live on. Also another idea I had was that it would make more sense to make the nomad empires ships more powerful or greatly increase the fleet capacity to make up for the fact that one lost battle could be the end of the species.

Edit: I see that you did mention living on ships, what I mean would that they would have dedicated ships that house the pops sort of like what you said which would basically be just moving space habitats. When 1.5 hits I could see that someone makes a mod that basically uses the colony ships as the "habitat" ships for the species to live on.

The existing Nomads clearly have their own manufacturing capabilities on their world-ships- there's an event all about the methods they use to make new ships and keep maintenance down when they're not needed.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Well I don't think hivemind scales very well. How can you realistically maintain useful communication between organisms billions of miles apart? In my mind an anarchy would have as much of a decentralized state as possible mixed with a complete lack of faith in it by the population. So people would choose to associate more with their local corporation, holy order, gang, academy, etc.

The actual state in this circumstance would be spending all its time trying to plug leaks, preventing monopolies, focusing on big crimes and events. So a fan spiritual anarchy would include the head priests recruited from volunteers from the public. It's likely the religion would be polytheistic and everyone can worship their own gods with their own stories. Only time the state would intervene is if any given sect tries to supercede the state/religion. Like when Yahweh the war god (and his followers) orchestrated a coup and turned Judaism from polytheism to the monotheism we know now. Beyond that, what the laws are, legality, policing, taxes, purging or not, etc, would be up to the local sect.

What you have described is a dystopic nightmare just as bad as any totalitarian state.

 

[Artigo]

Something akin to a Parliamentary Autocracy. Sort of like Great Britain, in a way. It would have a gradient of how much power the Autarch has vs the Council/Parliament. An ideal set up would have a benevolent head of state with a council that might either be elected or appointed. Though, I don't know how this would be represented in Stellaris where you really only see your leader and that's it.

 

[The Founder]

Something akin to a Parliamentary Autocracy. Sort of like Great Britain, in a way. It would have a gradient of how much power the Autarch has vs the Council/Parliament. An ideal set up would have a benevolent head of state with a council that might either be elected or appointed. Though, I don't know how this would be represented in Stellaris where you really only see your leader and that's it.

That is called a Democracy. Has been in the game since 1.0.

 

[Lothmar]

Im liking the discussion on 'Parasites' and think it fits well here.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/parasites.1001065/#post-22458484

 

[Xoatl]

I was just playing my xenophobe game. Purging an early space age civ I invaded before they can become a problem. I was wondering if there's a way to just kick them off the planet. It looks like you can with that one edict but I haven't tried it. But now with Banks you'll have even more specific control on kicking aliens out instead of purging. So I was wondering if POPs start leaving and there's no available empires what will they do? I'm certain the devs said that refugees can form their own nations through this method.

But how about in addition to (or as the introductory step) the refugees form a horde/nomad nation that is based on how many POPs. They'll wander around do what that government does and eventually settle down somewhere ideal. Assuming the home nation and every other nation can't take them this'll happen rare enough to not be too overdone.