• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

CatilinamSum

Pesky Immersion Guy
38 Badges
Apr 29, 2015
610
65
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
The beauty of CKII's roleplaying is that it allows you, the player, to write your own stories. It's possible to stumble across a lowborn peasant, promote him into your army, reward his conquests with land, and marry him off to your daughter... founding a lineage that will endure for centuries.

However, it's difficult to become form attachments to the majority of the game's faceless courtiers. They're usually ugly, blessed with terrible stats, and accentuated by nonsensical, conflicting traits. While interesting characters do sometimes appear at random, they're like unicorns - few and far between.

This is why, more often than not, I find myself drawn to courtiers created through special events - Jewish councilors; Chinese emissaries; Court Physicians; wise Gurus. They're interesting not just by nature of their stats, but by their identity. They help breathe diversity and life into the game.

So what makes courtiers like these compelling? Three factors, I'd argue:
  1. They belong to minorities - and thus, they're recognizable. They stand out from the crowd because they aren't like the rest of the crowd. You'll always notice this character when idly tabbing through your court. In the medieval world of CKII, this means a good deal.
  2. They aren't schmucks - and thus, you'll actually use them. Courtiers spawned at random or using the intrigue tab often have garbage stats and no special bonuses, making you wonder what selection process your councilors could possibly be using. On the other hand, courtiers created by events often have partially preset traits or stats that naturally suggest a position for them.
  3. They're tied to events - and thus, feel more like proper characters. CKII's dynamic storytelling is a gift, but is at its most satisfying when the parties involved aren't random nobodies. I always love tossing my rivals in the oubliette after they kill servants at feasts - and I also love when my soldier-surgeon Court Physician saves my ruler's life on the battlefield.
While I certainly don't want to see force-spawned courtiers take over the game, I think we could use a few more of them. (The Physicians of Reaper's Due received universal acclaim, after all.)
  • Parsis. In the de jure Kingdom of Gujarat, a Parsi philanthropist with Gujarati Culture, Zoroastrian Religion, and the Charitable trait will sometimes appear. This wealthy character will graciously improve your demesne provinces free of cost. As a reward for his services, your ruler may either offer him a parcel of land or ask him to join your court.
  • Bodos. Indigenous Bodo characters (either with the existing Bödpa culture, or perhaps with a new, unique culture) will sometimes appear at the courts of rulers in de jure Bengal and Assam. There's nothing terribly unique about them; they merely provide added flavor to the region.
  • Mizrahi Jews. Because it doesn't make much sense to have Ashkenazi in the Middle East. Mizrahi Culture characters will appear at the courts of rulers in the Maghreb, the Levant, the Arabian Peninsula, and Persia. They otherwise function similarly to existing Jewish courtiers, and share the same set of events.
  • Relict pagans. Before the year 1000, a rare event will spawn pagan characters in the courts of rulers with particular Cultures (Germanic Anglo-Saxons for Christian Anglo-Saxons; Hellenic Greeks for Orthodox Greeks). Pagans will have high stats and provide modest bonuses, but becoming too chummy with them will lead to another event chain in which religious authorities demand the execution or banishment of the pagan.
  • Nestorian scholars. The Bukhtishu family of physicians is already represented in the game's 769 start. During the Golden Age of Islam, Levantine, Persian, and Assyrian Christians were instrumental in the spread of Greco-Roman knowledge. A new event chain might allow Muslim rulers to recruit such characters in order to gain bonuses to their technology.
  • Steppe warriors. Rulers whose realms border steppe nomads will sometimes receive an offer from an enterprising warrior and his band of loyal followers. For a price, the ruler may recruit this warrior as a commander. He comes equipped with a modest number of non-despawning event troops. The warrior and his men will sometimes ask their new liege for land. If they are denied, they may choose to leave and take their services elsewhere.
  • Muslim slave concubines and soldiers. Especially common in al-Andalus, these characters will spawn with Muslim religion and a random eastern European Culture. Rulers may choose to promote the men as wartime generals, or take on the women as wives or illicit lovers. From time to time, former slave generals will lead provincial uprisings in an attempt to overthrow their former masters.
  • Viking thralls. Upon looting a church holding, Germanic Religion characters will sometimes capture a learned monk as a thrall. A unique Honorary Title is created for this courtier; he may also be appointed as Court Physician. Through a separate event chain, the ruler can befriend his Thrall and potentially convert to Christianity - or introduce the monk to the ways of Thor and Odin.
Feel free to share your thoughts or your ideas in your reply! I'll add some of the best ones to this post.
 
Upvote 0

Gurkhal

General
51 Badges
Mar 27, 2009
1.803
1.189
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • 500k Club
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Impire
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
These are some good ideas. What I would want in addition is courtiers from minority cultures in my own realm. For example if my character is Catholic French, but control Occitan provices, it would be nice to be able to chose to get Occitan courtiers to that I can appoint them to Occitan provinces and not see the extinction of all cultures not my own. :(
 

Atalvyr

General
165 Badges
Jan 17, 2013
1.822
5.800
36
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Gettysburg
  • Crusader Kings III Referal
  • Starvoid
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Diplomacy
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Galactic Assault
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
I really like this idea, but it needs to be paired with some way to mitigate the penalties for landing someone not of your culture. Minority cultures/religions all too often dissappear because the penalties for having wrong culture/religion land or vassals far ourweigh the minor inconvenience of spreading your own culture. Having a jewish courtier is cool and all, but the stacking penalties of wrong religion and wrong culture group make landing them futile and cripples their opinion of you.
 

CatilinamSum

Pesky Immersion Guy
38 Badges
Apr 29, 2015
610
65
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
Analoguous to Nestorian scholars, there were also Zoroastrian one in Persia, and Coptic in Egypt

Randomly-generated Zoroastrian and Coptic courtiers already appear in-game, so long as majority provinces of those religions exist in the ruler's demesne. Unfortunately, due to the game's tendency to prune "unimportant" courtiers, they tend not to last very long. It'd be nice if they (and foreign claimants) were protected from the regular sweeps.
 

Matihood1

Lt. General
17 Badges
Mar 7, 2014
1.243
817
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Surviving Mars
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
These are some good ideas. What I would want in addition is courtiers from minority cultures in my own realm. For example if my character is Catholic French, but control Occitan provices, it would be nice to be able to chose to get Occitan courtiers to that I can appoint them to Occitan provinces and not see the extinction of all cultures not my own. :(
But that would certainly be nice for roleplay reasons but would be very counter-productive otherwise since characters from other cultures than yours tend to be rebellious and want independence.
 

Gurkhal

General
51 Badges
Mar 27, 2009
1.803
1.189
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • 500k Club
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Impire
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
But that would certainly be nice for roleplay reasons but would be very counter-productive otherwise since characters from other cultures than yours tend to be rebellious and want independence.

Indeed. Maybe it would be a reason to look over relation modifiers so that monocultural realms won't be the best thing to become before sliced bread? I'm pretty certain that France, at least for some time, Holy Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire, Caliphates and so on managed to work pretty good despite having several different cultures within their borders at various times.

I could be wrong of course, but I feel that maybe there could be some way to fix things? Maybe more effect from the Tolerance technology or, I don't know, something.
 

Atalvyr

General
165 Badges
Jan 17, 2013
1.822
5.800
36
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Gettysburg
  • Crusader Kings III Referal
  • Starvoid
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Diplomacy
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Galactic Assault
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
What CK2 really needs for this to work is some variant of the EU4 mechanic of having accepted cultures. Currently, even having vassals from the same culture group is nearly as burdensome as having them be some completely foreign culture. If I could establish some sort of tradition for my realm having occupants of another culture, that would help mitigate the penalties for wrong culture. It looks like Holy Fury will allow some amount of this, as certain bloodlines can boost opinion with cultures outside your own. The bonus only mitigates about half the penalty though, but it might just make me consider keeping some dukes around of the relevant culture.
 

Woifee

Erzherzog von und zu Miregal
40 Badges
Apr 12, 2014
4.145
3.495
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
What CK2 really needs for this to work is some variant of the EU4 mechanic of having accepted cultures. Currently, even having vassals from the same culture group is nearly as burdensome as having them be some completely foreign culture. If I could establish some sort of tradition for my realm having occupants of another culture, that would help mitigate the penalties for wrong culture. It looks like Holy Fury will allow some amount of this, as certain bloodlines can boost opinion with cultures outside your own. The bonus only mitigates about half the penalty though, but it might just make me consider keeping some dukes around of the relevant culture.

The malus for culture and faith should stay. The AI should put mire pride in his heritage and should take care of raising his kids in his culture.
But the AI just doesn’t care. He gives his kud away to a courtier or his liege with different culture. This shouldn’t happen to often. Also provinces culture should be able to seith to controllers culture even if the controllers liege is of a different culture as the controller.

I like multi cultural realms. They are more difficult, fun and immersive.
 

Atalvyr

General
165 Badges
Jan 17, 2013
1.822
5.800
36
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Gettysburg
  • Crusader Kings III Referal
  • Starvoid
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Diplomacy
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Galactic Assault
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
I just wish the current malus system would be more nuanced. Currently Germans and Hungarians hate everyone because they are in their own culture groups. There is not way to model any sort of minority culture - a Catalan/Basque vassal will despise an Occitan leige, even though the cultures got along fine. Likewise a Welsh count will forever hold a grudge against an Anglo-Saxon/English king. They wont mind a Scottish king though, even though they are on separate ends of the island.

Having some way to model minority populations assimilating to their realm without losing their cultural identity would solve these issues, while still making sure conquered people properly despise their foreigner overlords more than if is the duke next door expanding in same-culture territory.

I agree with making it possible for dukes/counts to spread their own culture though, especially if it is in the same group as their liege. Perhaps just make the restriction so they do not convert a province AWAY from the lieges culture, but if it is neither the lieges culture nor their own, I see no reason why they should not convert it if they can. As it stands, you cannot spread any culture not your own, so you cannot really create enclaves of a culture you want to "preserve".
 

Kljunas

Field Marshal
49 Badges
Jan 27, 2013
3.028
552
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
iirc there are a couple of events that generate characters based on province culture/religion rather than on the ruler's but it would be very nice to have more of them.

Like that event when you get a lover while hunting, it would make sense for them to have the province culture and religion, or when you search for a smith or court physician they could be based on a random province from your realm/demesne.