Unification of Germany and Italy?

[unmerged(15764)]

re

why would they have a better navy? I dont think denmark would have made woul have made much difference at all maybe im wrong .. ... . .

 

[John Poole]

Dont overlook Austria! The main thing that allowed the Prussians to win was Austria's short-sighted leadership...an Austrian player might be able to overcome that deficiency. Getting Southern Germany would have given the Austrian Empire a German majority....history would be very different...

 

[unmerged(10945)]

Wouldn't Bavaria still be a contender to becoming the uniter of Germany? I thought they still had a stong position by this time...

 

[jacob-Lundgren]

of course... in MP 2 wily french, and prussian players could... form an alliance.. think about it
such long term potential for such an alliance.
there is of course a chance that events take a weird course, and germany never units, and stays in a few big chunks

 

[Plaps]

Bavaria was too busy building castles.

 

[unmerged(5664)]

Originally posted by PriestOfDiscord
Wouldn't Bavaria still be a contender to becoming the uniter of Germany? I thought they still had a stong position by this time...

My impression was that Bavaria was economically / militarily strong, but very incompetently led.

 

[unmerged(15764)]

yes

yes I believe this was the case, what about the italian unification how did it happen?

 

[unmerged(8303)]

through incredible luck, military leadership, and excellent diplomatic manuevers. Also they had a bit of help from France to get the Habsburg Italy and the Pope, well - Prussia helped that situation indirectly.

 

[unmerged(7537)]

Originally posted by BarristerBoy
My impression was that Bavaria was economically / militarily strong, but very incompetently led.

Yes, but with industrialization in Germany kicking in first in Saxonia and the (Prussian) Rhineland, Prussia clearly had the economic advantage over the rest of Germany.

And economically, through the "Zollunion" most German states were economically oriented towards Prussia, rather than Austria.
IMO, the only way for an Austrian player to keep Germany from uniting would be an agressive reforming of the whole German League thing, and playing nasty diplomacy instrumentalizing the outer-German majors France and Russia to keep Prussia from military-diplomatic adventures like the Danish war.

 

[unmerged(5588)]

Originally posted by Jaron
I wonder if in an MP game, the players will even allow the Prussian player to get German territories. Knowing the end result.

I hope so but I wonder..

If you played Russia for instance, and wanted to gain the upper hand on Britain or France (or vice versa), especially since these countries historically had disagreements over colonial issues. I'd love to see a WWI with countries allying differently than they did historically...

 

[Tim O]

The only player nation I Can see suporting German unification is Britain. They can use Germany to pressure France and gain an upper hand over the French in Africa.

 

[unmerged(10945)]

This thread is a clear example why WWI will not happen in its normal form in a GC. If I was playing Russia, I would easily risk war if it meant grabbing up parts of Germany, and I would bribe Denmark, Holland, Belgium, and anyone else to join in on the fun. Sure, adding another nationality to the list I'm already oppressing would hurt me, but not as much as a unified German state in 1914 would.

 

[unmerged(14689)]

I would try to keep the Three Emporers' League between Germany, Austria and Russia together if I, as a Russian player, wouldn't have succeeded in stopping Bismarck creating his monster of Frankenstein . Germany, Russia and Austria will steamroll everyone on the continent!

 

[unmerged(4486)]

Originally posted by PriestOfDiscord
This thread is a clear example why WWI will not happen in its normal form in a GC. If I was playing Russia, I would easily risk war if it meant grabbing up parts of Germany, and I would bribe Denmark, Holland, Belgium, and anyone else to join in on the fun. Sure, adding another nationality to the list I'm already oppressing would hurt me, but not as much as a unified German state in 1914 would.

One would assume that in the design that warmongers will be punished, 19th century style...as in most of Europe will ally against overly overt aggressors...I will take finessing, ala Bismarck style, to avoid being being ganged up upon.

 

[John Poole]

Originally posted by Suvorov
I would try to keep the Three Emporers' League between Germany, Austria and Russia together if I, as a Russian player, wouldn't have succeeded in stopping Bismarck creating his monster of Frankenstein . Germany, Russia and Austria will steamroll everyone on the continent!

Completely hypothetically here :

Say you are playing Russia and you fight a war with the Ottoman Empire in 1877 and then you dictate some peace terms but your so-called "ally" Germany comes in and screws you and hands alot of your spoils to Austria. Would you stay allied to two powers that screwed you so blatantly?

I have a hard time seeing how Austria and Russia could be allies since their interests were so counter to each other.

 

[crazy canuck]

Originally posted by John Poole
Completely hypothetically here :

Say you are playing Russia and you fight a war with the Ottoman Empire in 1877 and then you dictate some peace terms but your so-called "ally" Germany comes in and screws you and hands alot of your spoils to Austria. Would you stay allied to two powers that screwed you so blatantly?

I have a hard time seeing how Austria and Russia could be allies since their interests were so counter to each other.

I agree. Plus isn't there the little detail of the conflict between the protection Russia offers to the Slavic peoples under Austrian rule.

In a game like Diplomacy a Russian - German - Austrian alliance makes sense. But if Victoria is well modelled there should be a lot which divides the Russians from the other two.

 

[unmerged(5664)]

We are completely into AH's Diplomacy territory here - I love it!

 

[crazy canuck]

Out of curiousity would have been at all possible to reform the HRE out of Germany and northern Italy during this time period?

 

[unmerged(5664)]

Not really. It was the "Age of Nationalism" - people wanted to be in nation-states, where everyone of one nationality was in one state.

Besides, there were no found memories of the HRE by anyone at this time. Napoleon merely put the poor thing out of its misery.

 

[Lasse Nielsen]

Originally posted by Zagys
No offence, but I don't think Denmark would have made that much of a difference.

My point wasn't that we would have mattered much. My point is that if Denmark had declared war on Prussia, it wouldn't have taken them long to take over most of the country!
The Danish navy wasn't as big as before the napoleonic wars when the british bombarded Copenhagen and took over the danish navy, but it was still big enough to beat the Austrian navy in the war of 1864! And it was a hell of a lot bigger than anything the prussians had! If Prussia had taken Denmark and/or Holland as "Admiralty"states it would have given them an edge in the early fleetbuilding period. In late 19th century Denmark had the largest shipgun (333mm) in northerneurope (I belive the ship was called Tordenskjold, but I can't remember).